RBR!!! AJ Arrives in NY: Anthony Joshua vs Andy Ruiz Jr/Callum Smith vs Hassan N'Dam/Katie Taylor vs Delfine Persoon!

hazza

wasted chemist
Sep 2, 2013
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Surfers Paradise, QLD
It doesn't really.

There's multiple people in the division who don't hold belts or have one belt who would beat Ruiz.
well, its does really.

a guy like that should not hold any belts at all in the heavyweight division.

he sure wouldn't have in the 60s 70s 80s or 90s.

because to do that he'd have to beat guys like ali, foreman, frazier, norton, holmes, tyson, tucker, biggs, lewis, holyfield.

i'd be surprised if he was even ranked high enough to earn a title shot against any of those guys.

this is the only era i can think of where guys like ruiz and joshua could hold title belts.
 
Reactions: Nifty.Tech
May 19, 2013
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well, its does really.

a guy like that should not hold any belts at all in the heavyweight division.

he sure wouldn't have in the 60s 70s 80s or 90s.

because to do that he'd have to beat guys like ali, foreman, frazier, norton, holmes, tyson, tucker, biggs, lewis, holyfield.

i'd be surprised if he was even ranked high enough to earn a title shot against any of those guys.

this is the only era i can think of where guys like ruiz and joshua could hold title belts.
Rahman was lineal and unified champion in the Tyson/Holyfield/Lewis era.....
 
Jun 4, 2013
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In your posting.
Where? I think Wilder is complete trash, and maybe the hardest puncher ever. Lewis got knocked out by Rahman and McCall. It’s 50/50. Wilder’s chances in any fight rise and fall on his opponents chin. If a guy can be one punched then Wilder’s chances shoot way up, no matter how skilled the opponent is.
 
Jun 4, 2013
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That post about Wilder being 50 50 with Lewis is probably one of the worst I have ever seen, Wilder has knocked out one decent world level opponent in his whole career of padded shite. Yet he hangs with an all time great like Lennox. No fucking chance.
So your claim is that Wilder isn’t a puncher on the level of Rahman or McCall? If he is, that negates what you’re saying here. Neither of those guys were world class boxers either, with the dimensions of Wilder.
 
Jun 4, 2013
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Not to mention, Wilder was being outboxed by fucking Washington and was having trouble with Szpilka's jab before landing the big shot. Lewis was gasping for air by the second round against Rahman, due to being complacent and stupidly going into an altitude fight with no time to acclimatise. So we're basically talking about the McCall KO. He fought numerous guys who had the power to KO him, but didn't give them the chance. Wilder would be wrecked by Lewis. The jab alone would have him on the backfoot immediately and he is WIDE open to both the right hand and the uppercut.

Who the fuck has Wilder KO'd that is of a high level? The answer is Ortiz. That's it. And Ortiz's reputation is built of beating Jennings and being technically sound. Ortiz was outboxing Wilder and nearly KO'd him, while giving up 5" in reach and 3" in height. Lewis would have a 1" reach advantage over Wilder, while only being 2" shorter. The reach is a massive issue. Wilder has fought one man with a reach advantage over him...Fury and we saw how that went for most of the fight. Lewis has a harder jab than Fury, a much bigger right hand, and throws the uppercut on the inside with venom too.
Fury is bigger, has better footwork than Lewis. Plus less hittable and arguably a better chin. Wilder still found him. Lewis wouldn’t have got up from that.
 
Jun 4, 2013
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what I've been saying all along :good

add in tyrell biggs, larry holmes, jose ribalta and trevor bervick.

all those 80s guys would whip the top heavyweights today, ie ruiz, fury, joshua.

I shudder to think what mike would have done to them.
Lol, the guys you mentioned are Ortiz level.
This is the best heavyweight era ever.
 
Jun 4, 2013
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It just goes to show you the state of heavyweight boxing when beating Luis Ortiz puts you up there with the greats, fucking ridiculous.
When did I claim that Wilder was a great or anywhere near Lewis?
I’m talking about a head to head fight you fucking dummy, not a resume, skill or legacy context.
 
Jun 4, 2013
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it also shows how piss poor the division is when a guy like ruiz holds 3 world title belts.
A guy like Ruiz? You mean with elite speed, chin, combinations, head movement, parrying and timing ability?
If he had muscles and competed in the 80s/90s you’d be ejaculating over him.
 
Jun 4, 2012
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Fury is bigger, has better footwork than Lewis. Plus less hittable and arguably a better chin. Wilder still found him. Lewis wouldn’t have got up from that.
Being bigger doesn't mean a great deal in this context. Fury has been put down by Pajkic and Cunningham...no chance those two drop Lewis. Lewis took big shots from Bruno, Mercer and Rahman before the KO and was fine. Took some clean shots from Briggs too and so I see no real argument for Fury having a better chin other than that he got up from the Wilder KD...but it was the last round, I am pretty sure that Wilder had less pop than he would have had in round 2.

You can also flip it and say that when Lewis was on his game, he judged distance brilliantly, had an immense jab, used uppercuts excellently and hit FAR harder than Fury. Lewis would have gone into a Wilder fight with the concern necessary to make him box at his best. The edge of knowing the opponent has a massively dangerous attribute. And fundamentally, Lewis is such an infinitely better boxer than Wilder, who hits FAR harder than anyone Wilder has boxed and who would also have a reach advantage over Wilder...that it ends one way. Wilder sparked out inside 2 or 3 rounds.
 

DB Cooper

peel me a grape
May 17, 2013
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This is the best heavyweight era ever.
According to you this is the best heavyweight era ever and you rate Wilder number 3 in it. Yet you wrote this about Wilder one week ago :

Do you know anything about the fighters he has fought? He has fought bums. Molina almost had him out. Ortiz almost had him out, and was on his way to beating him. He went the distance with Stiverne the first time. He got dominated by Fury.
Where he stands in the division is as the true hype job, smoke and mirrors. Everyone gets so excited about a big puncher, especially at heavyweight and especially an American who talks nonsense.
The reality of the situation is he hasn’t proven anything. I like Wilder, I think he’s the most exciting fighter in the sport. But I’m honest, he is not a good boxer, he has no ring iq, he has no skills, he is fragile and he has a good punch.
:uwot
 
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Jun 4, 2013
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Being bigger doesn't mean a great deal in this context. Fury has been put down by Pajkic and Cunningham...no chance those two drop Lewis. Lewis took big shots from Bruno, Mercer and Rahman before the KO and was fine. Took some clean shots from Briggs too and so I see no real argument for Fury having a better chin other than that he got up from the Wilder KD...but it was the last round, I am pretty sure that Wilder had less pop than he would have had in round 2.

You can also flip it and say that when Lewis was on his game, he judged distance brilliantly, had an immense jab, used uppercuts excellently and hit FAR harder than Fury. Lewis would have gone into a Wilder fight with the concern necessary to make him box at his best. The edge of knowing the opponent has a massively dangerous attribute. And fundamentally, Lewis is such an infinitely better boxer than Wilder, who hits FAR harder than anyone Wilder has boxed and who would also have a reach advantage over Wilder...that it ends one way. Wilder sparked out inside 2 or 3 rounds.
I don’t disagree with anything you said, other than it ends in one way. It is still a 50/50 fight.
 
Jun 4, 2013
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According to you this is the best heavyweight era ever and you rate Wilder number 3 in it. Yet you wrote this about Wilder one week ago :



:uwot
Nah I rate Wilder fourth at the moment. He’s terrible, and one of the best punchers ever in an athletic 6’7 frame. Anybody without an iron chin is in serious danger with that guy.
 

DB Cooper

peel me a grape
May 17, 2013
17,924
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Nah I rate Wilder fourth at the moment. He’s terrible, and one of the best punchers ever in an athletic 6’7 frame. Anybody without an iron chin is in serious danger with that guy.
So that's the only bit you deny :lol::lol::lol:

'Where he stands in the division is as the true hype job, smoke and mirrors' - Dealt_with

"The reality of the situation is he hasn’t proven anything. I like Wilder, I think he’s the most exciting fighter in the sport. But I’m honest, he is not a good boxer, he has no ring iq, he has no skills, he is fragile and he has a good punch' - Dealt_with


Yet according to you Wilder is the 4th best heavyweight in the greatest heavyweight era ever.

You are a walking, talking contradiction :patsch
 
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Jun 4, 2012
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I don’t disagree with anything you said, other than it ends in one way. It is still a 50/50 fight.
Not for me, as prime Lewis was with Manny and he lost once, when at altitude without adjusting and lost due to his own complacency, so yes that version loses, but I am assuming we're talking about a good, focused version. That fight will be a blow out IMO, as Wilder would be fucked by the jab and timed by the right which ends him. His only chance would be to start highly aggressively as he occasionally does, but then when he does that he is very telegraphed. Winging in a big right hand, just sees him get the Grant treatment (obviously Wilder is better than Grant, but also has 3" less reach and is more open when throwing aggressively).
 
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DB Cooper

peel me a grape
May 17, 2013
17,924
4,679
Not for me, as prime Lewis was with Manny and he lost once, when at altitude without adjusting and lost due to his own complacency, so yes that version loses, but I am assuming we're talking about a good, focused version. That fight will be a blow out IMO, as Wilder would be fucked by the jab and timed by the right which ends him. His only chance would be to start highly aggressively as he occasionally does, but then when he does that he is very telegraphed. Winging in a big right hand, just sees him get the Grant treatment (obviously Wilder is better than Grant, but also has 3" less reach and is more open when throwing aggressively).
He has Wilder beating Wlad too. Yet according to him Wilder is 'not a good boxer, has no ring iq, has no skills, is fragile and has a poor chin.'
 
Jun 4, 2013
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So that's the only bit you deny :lol::lol::lol:

'Where he stands in the division is as the true hype job, smoke and mirrors' - Dealt_with

"The reality of the situation is he hasn’t proven anything. I like Wilder, I think he’s the most exciting fighter in the sport. But I’m honest, he is not a good boxer, he has no ring iq, he has no skills, he is fragile and he has a good punch' - Dealt_with


Yet according to you Wilder is the 4th best heavyweight in the greatest heavyweight era ever.

You are a walking, talking contradiction :patsch
I rank him 4th. My response was to people referring to Joshua as a hype job. Wilder is the true hype job in the division, the most likely to get ‘exposed’ (people don’t seem to count the Fury fight for that, I do).
I’d have him number two in most heavyweight eras. He hasn’t proven shit, but he has shown his punch and his athleticism. He is one of the least skilled top heavyweights ever. His success is indicative of his raw natural ability, not how poor his opponents are. It isn’t a zero sum game.

Again, where is my contradiction?