Alexandria ocasio-cortez

mandela

CHB Führer
May 16, 2013
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All of that is fair enough, but I would disagree that it isn't "really" socialist at all. Fair enough it isn't socialist as Marx would want, but neither are most "socialist" countries. it still has many socialist ideas. It is simply a more authoritarian version of it. Just look at Venezuela's nationalization of oil, agriculture, tourism, transport and so on. Those all contributed to Venezuela's failure. This is mostly Hugo Chavez' fault, not Maduro although he continued it.

You're right that alot of Venezeula's failure has to do with lack of economic diversity, relying too much on oil, but the centralization also factors in here.

Venezeula is a version of Authoritarian socialism. It's not the preferable one but it is an example of a failed socialist state. It's not state run capitalism.
OK, most of that's fair, tbh.

I still contest that centralization, in itself, is a factor though, man. The execution of it, aye, I would certainly agree there but we've seen centralization executed very well elsewhere. For example, Norway's oil resources. A lot of Europe's rail. Canada's healthcare. We know these things CAN and DO work so for the Republican's to focus entirely on the failures in Venezuela and use that to frame and discredit anything "SOCIALIST AND COMMUNIST" is fuckin' appalling as they know its bullshit but are playing on the ignorance and naivety of their own voters.
 

tommygun711

You don't have the capability for mayhem
Jun 4, 2013
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OK, most of that's fair, tbh.

I still contest that centralization, in itself, is a factor though, man. The execution of it, aye, I would certainly agree there but we've seen centralization executed very well elsewhere. For example, Norway's oil resources. A lot of Europe's rail. Canada's healthcare. We know these things CAN and DO work so for the Republican's to focus entirely on the failures in Venezuela and use that to frame and discredit anything "SOCIALIST AND COMMUNIST" is fuckin' appalling as they know its bullshit but are playing on the ignorance and naivety of their own voters.
I would disagree and say that Venezeula went way too far in terms of centralization, espescially compared to those countries you mention, but still some good points here. The Republicans definitely use Venezuela as a bullshit talking point to discredit any social program.
 
Reactions: mandela
May 10, 2013
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I would disagree and say that Venezeula went way too far in terms of centralization, espescially compared to those countries you mention, but still some good points here. The Republicans definitely use Venezuela as a bullshit talking point to discredit any social program.
The problem is they didn't use that oil money for innovation. They just focused on oil and thought they could support themselves from it till the end of time. A true socialist system brings innovation to a near halt. You need both government and private sector to promote innovation.
 

Haggis

CHB World Championship People's Champion
May 16, 2013
34,148
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The problem is they didn't use that oil money for innovation. They just focused on oil and thought they could support themselves from it till the end of time. A true socialist system brings innovation to a near halt. You need both government and private sector to promote innovation.
Yep.

You need the government to pour resources into areas of R & D that aren't going to be immediately profitable.

And you need private enterprise to act as a disruptor, and bring innovation to the marketplace without having to go through decades of bureaucracy.

:hat
 
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May 8, 2013
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The problem is they didn't use that oil money for innovation. They just focused on oil and thought they could support themselves from it till the end of time. A true socialist system brings innovation to a near halt. You need both government and private sector to promote innovation.
I have heard this effect called the Russia Disease. Too much money comes from digging / pumping shit out of the ground, and manufacturing stops innovating, and eventually you can't dig / pump your way to prosperity because there are limits to how fast you can dig / pump / sell. Then you are well and truly fucked because all of your non-natural resources like factories and design bureaus have become outdated & inefficient, and you lack the funds to modernize. You are stuck in a positive-feedback poverty loop. Almost impossible to break it quickly.
 
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May 8, 2013
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This is the entire Republican narrative ahead of 2020. Attacking socialism. Anyone hear Trumps 'speech' on Venezuela? The little that was barely coherent was fuck all to do with Venezuela, it was all "AMERICA WILL NEVER BE A SOCIALIST COUNTRY".

Literally no idea what socialism is. They think anything slightly left o Right is socialist.

Unbelievable stupid country when it comes to politics.
Agreed, but we just regained the title of the World's Most Competitive Economy, after a decade of being #2 or #3. We have corrupt retards in Congress & the Executive branch is like a parody at times, yet somehow, despite the best efforts of Congress and the lobbyists, it somehow works. Damn sure I cannot figure out how.