Anthony Joshua (WBA, IBF, WBO & IBO) vs. Oleksandr Usyk

[Ar558a]

The problem is after Fury vs AJ I & II happen there will be mandatories probably WBC first then WBA/IBF, Usyk will be waiting until 2023 most likely

They just need to get agreement as part of the fury negotiations that the WBO mandatory has first dibbs after the Two fights.

 

[craigseventy]

Boxing is a joke really, they need to find a way to get to just one belt per division

 

[sosolid4u09]

I look forward to hearns reaction when a big name vacates a belt instead of fighting one of his mid-tier guys. He's gonna bang about how mandatories are the only thing that keeps big names in check and forces them to fight. Otherwise you can "never get the big fights".

 

[sosolid4u09]

I respect usyks position. He's thinking long game. What exactly is in it for him?

If he allows aj to fight fury anyway, there's a rematch clause meaning he wouldn't get the winner until after the second fight anyway. So he would fight for a vacant title later rather than just fighting for it next by forcing aj to vacate. Lets look at the timelines

Scenario 1: usyk takes step aside money

May 2021 :
fury v aj1
Usyk vs random opponent (possibly)

September 2021 (wbo vacated) :
fury v aj2
Usyk vs xxx for vacant title

March 2022:
Usyk vs aj/fury (potentially)

Scenario 2: usyk doesn't step aside

May 2021 :
Fury v aj1
Usyk vs xxx for vacant title

September 2021:
Fury vs aj2
Usyk title defence

March 2022:
Usyk vs aj/fury

In scenario 2,he potentially gets an extra fight in, unless he takes another fight first and risks losing his position as mandatory. The additional fight under scenario 2 would be usyk as wbo champion. He is no better off taking step aside other than an extra million (which he would probably make up in the additional fight). He is no closer to the big aj/fury fight under scenario 1. At least with scenario 2 he has more control over his own destiny and goes into a potential aj/fury fight in a stronger position

 

[Ar558a]

Boxing is a joke really, they need to find a way to get to just one belt per division

Would make sense but more belts means more Money so it'll never happen.

 

[Ar558a]

I respect usyks position. He's thinking long game. What exactly is in it for him?

If he allows aj to fight fury anyway, there's a rematch clause meaning he wouldn't get the winner until after the second fight anyway. So he would fight for a vacant title later rather than just fighting for it next by forcing aj to vacate. Lets look at the timelines

Scenario 1: usyk takes step aside money

May 2021 :
fury v aj1
Usyk vs random opponent (possibly)

September 2021 (wbo vacated) :
fury v aj2
Usyk vs xxx for vacant title

March 2022:
Usyk vs aj/fury (potentially)

Scenario 2: usyk doesn't step aside

May 2021 :
Fury v aj1
Usyk vs xxx for vacant title

September 2021:
Fury vs aj2
Usyk title defence

March 2022:
Usyk vs aj/fury

In scenario 2,he potentially gets an extra fight in, unless he takes another fight first and risks losing his position as mandatory. The additional fight under scenario 2 would be usyk as wbo champion. He is no better off taking step aside other than an extra million (which he would probably make up in the additional fight). He is no closer to the big aj/fury fight under scenario 1. At least with scenario 2 he has more control over his own destiny and goes into a potential aj/fury fight in a stronger position

Hmm I guess it depends what the step aside money is really, I think he gets more Step aside than he can make from a defence of the WBO assuming he wins against Joyce? (and even that might be a struggle!). I'm guessing a defence would be against Parker?/Hunter?. I just don't think those fights bring much cash in even if he can get them in the US. He hasn't got the name recognition with Casual US fans to make the PPV sell enough to make the dough. I think he could get $5-10 million step aside (If AJ+ Fury are getting $100m+ between them that seems plausible) if he negotiates right. Also he will find it harder to get big fights with AJ/Matchroom and Fury/Top Rank if he fucks up the Undisputed fight.

 

[Bob Weaver]

It increases his chances of ever becoming world champion and increases his bargaining power in 2022. Makes sense to me.

 

[sosolid4u09]

Hmm I guess it depends what the step aside money is really, I think he gets more Step aside than he can make from a defence of the WBO assuming he wins against Joyce? (and even that might be a struggle!). I'm guessing a defence would be against Parker?/Hunter?. I just don't think those fights bring much cash in even if he can get them in the US. He hasn't got the name recognition with Casual US fans to make the PPV sell enough to make the dough. I think he could get $5-10 million step aside (If AJ+ Fury are getting $100m+ between them that seems plausible) if he negotiates right. Also he will find it harder to get big fights with AJ/Matchroom and Fury/Top Rank if he fucks up the Undisputed fight.

I think the big benefit is that he wins the wbo belt immediately and can get a voluntary in before a potential aj/tf fight. He would be far more in control rather than waiting 6-9 months for his wbo shot which wouldn't be against the big 2 anyway.

HOWEVER this is assuming he gets 1-2m step aside. If he indeed is offered 5-10m then that changes things imo. Its probably worth waiting it out for that kind of scratch but I'm not sure hearn and arum are willing to offer that much. It sounds like they're considering dropping all the belts and pay no sanctioning fees to maximise the revenue

 

[A.C.S]

They just need to get agreement as part of the fury negotiations that the WBO mandatory has first dibbs after the Two fights.

But why would WBO have to come first its up to the winner which belts he wants to vacate, if Fury wins he will probably drop all the belts anyway, Usyk is smart he knows he will be waiting years or a shot so why not try now quickly

 

[Bob Weaver]

But why would WBO have to come first its up to the winner which belts he wants to vacate, if Fury wins he will probably drop all the belts anyway, Usyk is smart he knows he will be waiting years or a shot so why not try now quickly

The WBO mando is due first. Joshua has defended the others more recently, and as far as I can tell the WBC have just given up ordering mandatories at heavy

 

[A.C.S]

The WBO mando is due first. Joshua has defended the others more recently, and as far as I can tell the WBC have just given up ordering mandatories at heavy

Its true but by the time AJ and Fury have 2 fights im guessing they will have time limits on all their mandatories

 

[Bob Weaver]

Its true but by the time AJ and Fury have 2 fights im guessing they will have time limits on all their mandatories

WBO is due now though, before the Fury fight.

 

[Ar558a]

I think the big benefit is that he wins the wbo belt immediately and can get a voluntary in before a potential aj/tf fight. He would be far more in control rather than waiting 6-9 months for his wbo shot which wouldn't be against the big 2 anyway.

HOWEVER this is assuming he gets 1-2m step aside. If he indeed is offered 5-10m then that changes things imo. Its probably worth waiting it out for that kind of scratch but I'm not sure hearn and arum are willing to offer that much. It sounds like they're considering dropping all the belts and pay no sanctioning fees to maximise the revenue

Dropping all the belts would be crazy, that makes this a fight in a pub car park from my point of view. The whole point is that this fight is meant to define the best HW on the planet and that needs to ideally be for all 4 belts but at very least 3 belts. Are we gonna have Usyk/Wilder/Ruix/Parker etc holding all the belts and Fury and Joshua with nothing? I know the multi-belt system is a pain and the sanctioning fees are alot but on a fight that could make $500m worldwide there is enough pie to go round for the fighters and promoters to make a mint, Usyk to be convinced to stand aside and the keep all the bodies on side. I don't think it is worth it to save a few million to have a winner (presumably of a two fight agreement) who then might need to fight pretty hard to get any of those belts back (whoever has them is likely to want to avoid both the winner and the loser as much as they can).

 

[sosolid4u09]

Dropping all the belts would be crazy, that makes this a fight in a pub car park from my point of view. The whole point is that this fight is meant to define the best HW on the planet and that needs to ideally be for all 4 belts but at very least 3 belts. Are we gonna have Usyk/Wilder/Ruix/Parker etc holding all the belts and Fury and Joshua with nothing? I know the multi-belt system is a pain and the sanctioning fees are alot but on a fight that could make $500m worldwide there is enough pie to go round for the fighters and promoters to make a mint, Usyk to be convinced to stand aside and the keep all the bodies on side. I don't think it is worth it to save a few million to have a winner (presumably of a two fight agreement) who then might need to fight pretty hard to get any of those belts back (whoever has them is likely to want to avoid both the winner and the loser as much as they can).

Id prefer the belts to be on the line too but I wouldn't go as far as saying its a fight in a pub car park if that doesn't happen. And the winner will undoubtedly be number 1 and will have the ring magazine belt. I'm just going off what hearn is saying.

I also have a feeling that between hearn, arum, fury and aj, theres more than enough greed to go round for them to rather take the extra couple of mill over having belts on the line