What's your opinion of Antifa?

  • They fight for a good cause. They're good.

    Votes: 8 10.8%
  • I don't know.

    Votes: 2 2.7%
  • I don't like them.

    Votes: 35 47.3%
  • I hate them, because i'm a fascist. Heil Hitler

    Votes: 29 39.2%

  • Total voters
    74
Nov 4, 2015
3,008
1,181
So . None of you have explained what is the incredible risk that bun shop owners make,other than being cast into the working class if their business fails. When being a worker is the reality for the majority of people anyway
So let's go over the risks then.

First you need the capital. You either inherit this capital or you work your ass off for it. That means saving everything you can. That means not having things you'd like to have. Imagine not buying your favorite new video game releases for years on end. Imagine not getting new clothes, TVs, car, etc. That's sacrifice to work for your savings. The other way to secure capital is to get a business loan but this isn't easy either and you have to pay that money back. So revenue becomes even more of a worry.

Another risk is your health. As you spin up a business you realize something. You can't just work 8 hours a day. The baker is doing all this on his own. So he has to be custodian, baker, clerk, garbage man, maintenance man, orders and paperwork handler and bouncer if someone is being a dick. That's several full time jobs. He's lucky to leave at 6PM never mind his 3AM start.

Contracts are another risk. You lease a plot you don't own it. So on top of paying for materials and various shipping and site fees you are on the hook for rental fees. You have to turn a profit big enough to cover your materials and all these fees along with whatever you're paying the help. If you have any help at all which is usually not feasible. This is why small shops are mom and pop shops. Because mom and pop both work for nothing to make a business something and neither have issues with it.

There's an absolute shit ton of tax law and regulations to cover too. Like having your kitchens ready for inspection. Having a regular clean out of bad product. Keep in mind all the things I've mentioned being done by one man or one family.

Why do people do this? Because it's a free country and everyone wants to live comfortably or see their kids live comfortably. The catch is only some make the genuine sacrifice. Now you could say let's have government provide the capital for business creation but then you have to know what the market needs, where the market needs it and when the market needs it. You have to understand the grandeur of the market and how things connect inside of it. You have to know product and how to best ship and label product. Government bureaucrats are shit at this. Anyone who tries to narrowly define the grandeur of the market is shit at it. A market force containing the buyers and producers in a society of 320 million people is unfathomably large and impassably complicated. It cannot be centrally governed. Not that it's a bad idea but because it's impossible to be done correctly. Hence great idea bad outcome. Every time.
 
Reactions: Broxi
Jun 21, 2013
869
302
Then human nature is mutable, no? Which blows up Marxist theory that persons may be trained. Until such time as the true Communist Man emerges, and the Socialist state that emerges after the destruction of the bourgeoisie fades away. GTFO.
Wtf are u on about 'true communist man' :rofl that's a new one on me. Yes human nature is flexible .
Slavery of blackswas once seen as right,now it's not. I don't think the most crazy fascist now would say he considered bringing back slavery of blacks a good idea.
Capitalism pushes the idea of individualism, selfishness,greed. It's the dominant ideology of the day because it serves capitalism s interests.
 
Reactions: Bachafach and Joe E
Jun 21, 2013
869
302
So let's go over the risks then.

First you need the capital. You either inherit this capital or you work your ass off for it. That means saving everything you can. That means not having things you'd like to have. Imagine not buying your favorite new video game releases for years on end. Imagine not getting new clothes, TVs, car, etc. That's sacrifice to work for your savings. The other way to secure capital is to get a business loan but this isn't easy either and you have to pay that money back. So revenue becomes even more of a worry.

Another risk is your health. As you spin up a business you realize something. You can't just work 8 hours a day. The baker is doing all this on his own. So he has to be custodian, baker, clerk, garbage man, maintenance man, orders and paperwork handler and bouncer if someone is being a dick. That's several full time jobs. He's lucky to leave at 6PM never mind his 3AM start.

Contracts are another risk. You lease a plot you don't own it. So on top of paying for materials and various shipping and site fees you are on the hook for rental fees. You have to turn a profit big enough to cover your materials and all these fees along with whatever you're paying the help. If you have any help at all which is usually not feasible. This is why small shops are mom and pop shops. Because mom and pop both work for nothing to make a business something and neither have issues with it.

There's an absolute shit ton of tax law and regulations to cover too. Like having your kitchens ready for inspection. Having a regular clean out of bad product. Keep in mind all the things I've mentioned being done by one man or one family.

Why do people do this? Because it's a free country and everyone wants to live comfortably or see their kids live comfortably. The catch is only some make the genuine sacrifice. Now you could say let's have government provide the capital for business creation but then you have to know what the market needs, where the market needs it and when the market needs it. You have to understand the grandeur of the market and how things connect inside of it. You have to know product and how to best ship and label product. Government bureaucrats are shit at this. Anyone who tries to narrowly define the grandeur of the market is shit at it. A market force containing the buyers and producers in a society of 320 million people is unfathomably large and impassably complicated. It cannot be centrally governed. Not that it's a bad idea but because it's impossible to be done correctly. Hence great idea bad outcome. Every time.
The invisible hand of the market hey? Or is it anarchism of production? Excess food gets thrown away as there's no market to buy it. Yet there's hungry people,who can't afford it. There's homelessness yet there's enough houses for all, why can't the market supply it? Is it the granduer?
The USA is the richest country in the world yet can't provide universal health care for its people... Because of the market. Cool
 
Reactions: Bachafach
Nov 4, 2015
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1,181
The invisible hand of the market hey? Or is it anarchism of production? Excess food gets thrown away as there's no market to buy it. Yet there's hungry people,who can't afford it. There's homelessness yet there's enough houses for all, why can't the market supply it? Is it the granduer?
The USA is the richest country in the world yet can't provide universal health care for its people... Because of the market. Cool
Yes as a matter of fact it is the grandeur. All the parts of the market you don't see.

Like giving people free bread tends to reduce the value of it where it could be used in animal feed and some charities purchase it anyway at a reduced rate.

Like a home having some market value where a squatter reduces its value to zero. A house that will inevitably sell and make the owner and the real estate agents and the bank some money. As well as the appraisers and the inspectors.

Of course not missing the negative result of giving someone something for nothing. Ever see what a brick project does to a working class neighborhood? Ever see what happens when working class people are forced to take in third world immigrants who can't speak the language, who have behavioral problems, who have violent criminal backgrounds? I can tell you I've seen that firsthand too and the neighborhoods were destroyed.

You never give any living thing something for nothing. Not even your kid. Especially your kid.
 
Nov 4, 2015
3,008
1,181
Hilarious. Individual consumerism and the atomisation of social life are hallmarks of capitalist society right now

So the unlearned among us must ask. What makes you think the tremendous sacrifice to bring product to market so that others may pay for it is a selfish endeavor?

Isn't selfishness about lack of concern about others? I mean if I try to put a shit product on the market are others compelled to buy it? Only if the government owns that product right?
 
Reactions: Broxi

kf3

Jul 17, 2012
4,803
2,437
South London
So what's the issue then? If China is wealthy and they treat their people like shit wouldn't it be better to be poorer?
I don't know, that question makes zero sense in the context of either the thread or my last post.

No, you'd have to be a complete fucking moron to think that.
 
Reactions: Bachafach
Nov 4, 2015
3,008
1,181
I don't know, that question makes zero sense.
Really? Hm. Lemme see if I can rephrase it for you.

You responded to @bazzel that China was richer than the US because he made a silly comment about the US being so rich it should be able to afford universal healthcare (trick question as no country can afford it).

I then asked you why not move to China if wealth would make a difference. Apparently the answer was no because the wealth of a country doesn't matter. It's all about how friendly those countries are to foreign invaders.
 

kf3

Jul 17, 2012
4,803
2,437
South London
Cccccp imo the most evil organisation on the planet. Measured by number of people fucked with and how bad.
 
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kf3

Jul 17, 2012
4,803
2,437
South London
More resources means you can do more. If you are evil more resources means more evil. If you are good,................................ I don't need to finish right, everyone else gets exactly what I am saying?