Anyone do the intermittent fasting?

Beefcake

Disgruntled Mexican
May 21, 2013
4,085
949
I made a pact with a friend to lose 15lbs each by New Year. If one doesn't make it, he owes the other $20. Not much, but enough to get us motivated for shit-talking rights.

I might fuck with the intermittent fasting for the rest of the year.
 
Reactions: Tuff Gong
Jun 4, 2013
7,525
789
It’s clear that people here don’t know what this is or why it is beneficial. It’s not the same as cutting calories at all.
By not eating food for a long time your body gets better at utilising fat for fuel.
It triggers autophagy, junk protein being eaten up by your body to make everything more efficient.
Downregulation of the mtor pathway - this is what increases longevity, we live either for immediate breeding or for longevity until a time we are able to breed. Someone said that fasting helps boost testosterone levels, it certainly doesn’t. It has the opposite effect and that’s what improves your immune system, and helps you live longer.

It increases BDNF in your hippocampus, improving memory and cognition. Combined with the stress hormones (cortisol, norepinephrine etc.) and the increased production of the neuropeptide Orexin, this is what makes you feel mentally sharp during a fast and improves cognition long term.

It’s stupidly easy to do unless you have no will power at all. I prefer to do occasional 48 hour fasts, no strict protocol. People act like it’s something strange, but evolutionary speaking eating three meals a day is what is strange. That lack of stress on your body is what causes people to be weak physically and mentally. If you’re training like a mad man it’s not the best idea because you already have that stress (and lots of the aforementioned benefits from fasting) so you need those carbs and energy coming in to stop you draining yourself.
For someone who does little exercise, fasting is probably the best thing you could do for your health. It’s not a weight loss diet, it’s a health promoting diet. Unless you’re starting out as an absolute fat shit who eats constantly, your weight isn’t going to change due to homeostatic processes.
 

Squire

Let's Go Champ
May 17, 2013
5,693
2,129
Morpeth, Northumberland
I've been doing 16-8 fasting for about 2 months and lost a couple of kg. I was about 86-88 before and am now 84-86 (depending on how much I've eaten or shat). It's so piss easy to follow I can't believe anyone is still fat. I also cheat a tiny bit and have a dash of milk in my coffee, but don't have the half sugar I'd have between midday and 8pm.

I'm actually thinking of stopping because I don't have any more body fat to lose and don't want to start looking emaciated, but I'm saving a bit of money on cereal and milk so maybe not :lol:
 
Apr 7, 2014
4,936
1,832
It’s clear that people here don’t know what this is or why it is beneficial. It’s not the same as cutting calories at all.
By not eating food for a long time your body gets better at utilising fat for fuel.
It triggers autophagy, junk protein being eaten up by your body to make everything more efficient.
Downregulation of the mtor pathway - this is what increases longevity, we live either for immediate breeding or for longevity until a time we are able to breed. Someone said that fasting helps boost testosterone levels, it certainly doesn’t. It has the opposite effect and that’s what improves your immune system, and helps you live longer.

It increases BDNF in your hippocampus, improving memory and cognition. Combined with the stress hormones (cortisol, norepinephrine etc.) and the increased production of the neuropeptide Orexin, this is what makes you feel mentally sharp during a fast and improves cognition long term.

It’s stupidly easy to do unless you have no will power at all. I prefer to do occasional 48 hour fasts, no strict protocol. People act like it’s something strange, but evolutionary speaking eating three meals a day is what is strange. That lack of stress on your body is what causes people to be weak physically and mentally. If you’re training like a mad man it’s not the best idea because you already have that stress (and lots of the aforementioned benefits from fasting) so you need those carbs and energy coming in to stop you draining yourself.
For someone who does little exercise, fasting is probably the best thing you could do for your health. It’s not a weight loss diet, it’s a health promoting diet. Unless you’re starting out as an absolute fat shit who eats constantly, your weight isn’t going to change due to homeostatic processes.
I’m gonna say something about this later. It’s off.
 

REDC

Amateuristic professional
Dec 12, 2015
2,155
643
I’m not gonna dog up the interview, but one of the guys who runs 40+ miles in a day does it by eating a lot of unsaturated fats.
Name?
One of the top guys as in world/Olympic top 25? Or a random freak of nature? There are always exceptions.
 

REDC

Amateuristic professional
Dec 12, 2015
2,155
643
I've been doing 16-8 fasting for about 2 months and lost a couple of kg. I was about 86-88 before and am now 84-86 (depending on how much I've eaten or shat). It's so piss easy to follow I can't believe anyone is still fat. I also cheat a tiny bit and have a dash of milk in my coffee, but don't have the half sugar I'd have between midday and 8pm.

I'm actually thinking of stopping because I don't have any more body fat to lose and don't want to start looking emaciated, but I'm saving a bit of money on cereal and milk so maybe not :lol:
Milk is cheating? Looks like your calorie intake is too high then if you can't even have milk and only lost 2-4 kg in 2 months.
 

Squire

Let's Go Champ
May 17, 2013
5,693
2,129
Morpeth, Northumberland
Milk is cheating? Looks like your calorie intake is too high then if you can't even have milk and only lost 2-4 kg in 2 months.
I've read mixed things on whether a dash of milk is okay or not, but black coffee is pretty depressing so I'm not bothered either way

And like I say, I didn't have a lot of weight to lose, just wanted to drop a couple of kilos, see if IF worked and if there were any benefits/side effects. I'm a shade under 6'3 so 84-86kg is fine. Incidentally, I think I am better in the mornings when I don't eat.
 
Reactions: Clarence Worley
Apr 7, 2014
4,936
1,832
It’s clear that people here don’t know what this is or why it is beneficial. It’s not the same as cutting calories at all.
By not eating food for a long time your body gets better at utilising fat for fuel.
It triggers autophagy, junk protein being eaten up by your body to make everything more efficient.
Downregulation of the mtor pathway - this is what increases longevity, we live either for immediate breeding or for longevity until a time we are able to breed. Someone said that fasting helps boost testosterone levels, it certainly doesn’t. It has the opposite effect and that’s what improves your immune system, and helps you live longer.

It increases BDNF in your hippocampus, improving memory and cognition. Combined with the stress hormones (cortisol, norepinephrine etc.) and the increased production of the neuropeptide Orexin, this is what makes you feel mentally sharp during a fast and improves cognition long term.

It’s stupidly easy to do unless you have no will power at all. I prefer to do occasional 48 hour fasts, no strict protocol. People act like it’s something strange, but evolutionary speaking eating three meals a day is what is strange. That lack of stress on your body is what causes people to be weak physically and mentally. If you’re training like a mad man it’s not the best idea because you already have that stress (and lots of the aforementioned benefits from fasting) so you need those carbs and energy coming in to stop you draining yourself.
For someone who does little exercise, fasting is probably the best thing you could do for your health. It’s not a weight loss diet, it’s a health promoting diet. Unless you’re starting out as an absolute fat shit who eats constantly, your weight isn’t going to change due to homeostatic processes.
  1. Autophagy--correct
  2. It does apparently downregulate mtor. That would likely give fasting anticancer properties. Saying that would boost longevity is a jump and I'm not sure where you're getting that from
  3. Normal testosterone levels correlate with good immune function. I can't find anything reliable about fasting having a significant effect on T levels, either way. Low T isn't associated with longevity as far as I know.
  4. I'm not familiar with BDNF.
  5. It would raise cortisol. High cortisol leads to cardiovascular disease and insulin resistance. I imagine the effect would be temporary in an intermittent fast. More probably, using fat metabolism would help memory and anything cognitive because it's more efficient than carbs.
If you're talking about anti-aging, the discussion should probably be more about how oxidative stress is lowered during a fast. Things like smoking, drinking, and eating fried foods raise oxidative stress whereas eating green vegetables and good fats would give protection. Oxidative stress shortens telomeres which is associated with aging. We may see science figure out how to safely lengthen telomeres within our lifetime and potentially give humans afforded the access very long life. (I might be willing to spend a lot of money to get my telomeres lengthened in the future if the science is good and on the table.)

One other thing that should be mentioned is the drug Metformin. It's a diabetes med so it gives an effect similar to creating a fasting state. It has been proven to lengthen lifespan in rats. It could also give the same effect in humans but remains unproven. If you want to try it, it's cheap and easy to get.
 
Jun 4, 2013
7,525
789
  1. Autophagy--correct
  2. It does apparently downregulate mtor. That would likely give fasting anticancer properties. Saying that would boost longevity is a jump and I'm not sure where you're getting that from
  3. Normal testosterone levels correlate with good immune function. I can't find anything reliable about fasting having a significant effect on T levels, either way. Low T isn't associated with longevity as far as I know.
  4. I'm not familiar with BDNF.
  5. It would raise cortisol. High cortisol leads to cardiovascular disease and insulin resistance. I imagine the effect would be temporary in an intermittent fast. More probably, using fat metabolism would help memory and anything cognitive because it's more efficient than carbs.
If you're talking about anti-aging, the discussion should probably be more about how oxidative stress is lowered during a fast. Things like smoking, drinking, and eating fried foods raise oxidative stress whereas eating green vegetables and good fats would give protection. Oxidative stress shortens telomeres which is associated with aging. We may see science figure out how to safely lengthen telomeres within our lifetime and potentially give humans afforded the access very long life. (I might be willing to spend a lot of money to get my telomeres lengthened in the future if the science is good and on the table.)

One other thing that should be mentioned is the drug Metformin. It's a diabetes med so it gives an effect similar to creating a fasting state. It has been proven to lengthen lifespan in rats. It could also give the same effect in humans but remains unproven. If you want to try it, it's cheap and easy to get.
2. All the empirical data on fasting talks about this mechanism. Granted in animal research, but mammals are mammals.

3. Low T is associated with longevity and better immune system functioning. Exhibit A- females live longer everything else equal. This is well established, and why man flu is actually a thing (we get sicker because of testosterone).

4. BDNF - the only place in your brain that neurogenesis takes place regularly - your hippocampus. This is what is responsible for long term cognitive benefits of fasting.

5. Cortisol is essential, that’s what mobilises fat. You’re getting confused about short term vs long term. The HPA axis does what it is supposed to do. The aforementioned hippocampus is also vital in the feedback component of this, to reduce chronic exhaustion.
 

Johnstown

Dominant Poster
Jun 4, 2013
16,802
2,097
2. All the empirical data on fasting talks about this mechanism. Granted in animal research, but mammals are mammals.

3. Low T is associated with longevity and better immune system functioning. Exhibit A- females live longer everything else equal. This is well established, and why man flu is actually a thing (we get sicker because of testosterone).

4. BDNF - the only place in your brain that neurogenesis takes place regularly - your hippocampus. This is what is responsible for long term cognitive benefits of fasting.

5. Cortisol is essential, that’s what mobilises fat. You’re getting confused about short term vs long term. The HPA axis does what it is supposed to do. The aforementioned hippocampus is also vital in the feedback component of this, to reduce chronic exhaustion.
Fallacy here Dealt.

Kinda like the old....Oranges are fruits....apples are fruits...so apples are oranges fallacy.

Just because fasting may cause longevity...and low T may cause longevity....it does not automatically follow that fasting leads to low T.

In fact it could cause higher T even if higher T is a negative for longevity...because it could have other mechanisms that are more potent.


Damn you had almost convinced people that you are smart.
 
Apr 7, 2014
4,936
1,832
2. All the empirical data on fasting talks about this mechanism. Granted in animal research, but mammals are mammals.

3. Low T is associated with longevity and better immune system functioning. Exhibit A- females live longer everything else equal. This is well established, and why man flu is actually a thing (we get sicker because of testosterone).

4. BDNF - the only place in your brain that neurogenesis takes place regularly - your hippocampus. This is what is responsible for long term cognitive benefits of fasting.

5. Cortisol is essential, that’s what mobilises fat. You’re getting confused about short term vs long term. The HPA axis does what it is supposed to do. The aforementioned hippocampus is also vital in the feedback component of this, to reduce chronic exhaustion.
So with mTor you'd have to jump from mammal studies to saying it's true in humans to saying that intermittent fasting causes enough downregulation to make a significant impact. Could be true or could be no significant impact.

Testosterone is not proven to be associated with shorter lifespan. Men past a certain age will have a longer than women anyway. And you can't assume that a woman's hormone levels will work in a man.

I said right in my statement about cortisol that intermittent fasting probably wouldn't cause a long term negative effect. My point is that cortisol is complicated and not necessarily a good thing to have unregulated. It's basically a corticosteroid and corticosteroids can have all sorts of negative effects.
 
Last edited:
Jun 4, 2013
7,525
789
Fallacy here Dealt.

Kinda like the old....Oranges are fruits....apples are fruits...so apples are oranges fallacy.

Just because fasting may cause longevity...and low T may cause longevity....it does not automatically follow that fasting leads to low T.

In fact it could cause higher T even if higher T is a negative for longevity...because it could have other mechanisms that are more potent.


Damn you had almost convinced people that you are smart.
Obviously correlation doesn’t equal causation. But there are empirical studies testing precisely this - fasting lowers testosterone. That’s even with the fact that lower body fat increases testosterone, that offset not negating the deficit.
Even just evolutionary speaking, logically... when you aren’t eating then reproduction is not going to be a primary concern.
 
Reactions: Johnstown
Jun 4, 2013
7,525
789
So with mTor you'd have to jump from mammal studies to saying it's true in humans to saying that intermittent fasting causes enough upregulation to make a significant impact. Could be true or could be no significant impact.

Testosterone is not proven to be associated with shorter lifespan. Men past a certain age will have a longer than women anyway. And you can't assume that a woman's hormone levels will work in a man.

I said right in my statement about cortisol that intermittent fasting probably wouldn't cause a long term negative effect. My point is that cortisol is complicated and not necessarily a good thing to have unregulated. It's basically a corticosteroid and corticosteroids can have all sorts of negative effects.
There are two energy pathways in humans that oppose each other -AMPK and mTor. This isn’t just a hypothesis, increased mtor production is increased cell turnover. That is what shortens your telomeres, that is what accelerates cell mutations (cancer and the link to protein).
I would like to believe that gaining muscle, testosterone and stimulating mtor is beneficial for health. It’s blatantly obvious that it’s not. As someone who is naturally very muscular (I obviously have a lot of satellite cells and turnover) I need to be especially mindful of this. People who take steroids die early, powerlifters who lift and eat shit loads age themselves quickly.
It goes back to what I mentioned.. you fuck and reproduce and die early, or you starve yourself to slow down cell turnover, decrease testosterone and live for a long time. You can’t have both.

Re: testosterone and longevity, how hormones work for males and females.. this is well established.

What you’ve said about cortisol doesn’t make any sense. I don’t know what you mean by unregulated. Google what the HPA axis and what the response to stress is. I don’t mean to be disrespectful, but you’re clearly lacking an understanding about these basic biological processes. Learn the basics first and then debate nuances and confounding factors.
 
Apr 7, 2014
4,936
1,832
There are two energy pathways in humans that oppose each other -AMPK and mTor. This isn’t just a hypothesis, increased mtor production is increased cell turnover. That is what shortens your telomeres, that is what accelerates cell mutations (cancer and the link to protein).
I would like to believe that gaining muscle, testosterone and stimulating mtor is beneficial for health. It’s blatantly obvious that it’s not. As someone who is naturally very muscular (I obviously have a lot of satellite cells and turnover) I need to be especially mindful of this. People who take steroids die early, powerlifters who lift and eat shit loads age themselves quickly.
It goes back to what I mentioned.. you fuck and reproduce and die early, or you starve yourself to slow down cell turnover, decrease testosterone and live for a long time. You can’t have both.

Re: testosterone and longevity, how hormones work for males and females.. this is well established.

What you’ve said about cortisol doesn’t make any sense. I don’t know what you mean by unregulated. Google what the HPA axis and what the response to stress is. I don’t mean to be disrespectful, but you’re clearly lacking an understanding about these basic biological processes. Learn the basics first and then debate nuances and confounding factors.
I meant to say "downregulate" in the other post for mTor. So intermittent fasting raises cortisol and downregulates mTor. Hypercortisolism as a chronic condition is terrible for you. The duration of up regulation of cortisol caused by an intermittent fast is not likely to actually negatively impact you. So you believe downregulatig mTor has a role in longevity. Ok, but it's also unsubstantiated to claim that the amount of downregulation caused by intermittent fasting will have any actual impact on a person's lifespan. Get it?

There are various men who have had their testicles removed and their lifespans have been studied. So far, it is not proven that men without testicles outlive other men.

Telomere shortening is a lot more complicated than that pathway. Exercise has a protective effect on telomeres. Being overweight increases mortality. Amount of muscle, less so.

I'm not short on education if you're wondering.
 
May 16, 2013
3,364
1,751
Carbs are junk.
I'm talkiing about everyday people.
Almost every physician, performance athlete, scientist, etc. Disagrees with you but if it works for you then more power to you. If you're eating to look a certain way and are too lazy or lack the self control to eat properly then sure cutting out carbs will get you there. You will never be at peak performance. There's a reason body builders pass out on stage. Their only goal is to look a certain way but that's not ideal for peak human performance.

It cracks me up when the anti carb crowd makes and exception. someone on this board talked about how he was in keto but ate some carbs cause he was going in a hike. Like he fully acknowledged that carbs are a superior source of energy but still swears keto is the way.

The problem with carbs really comes down to 2 things.

1. Refinement. Sugar, white breads, white rice, bleached pasta, etc. We are keeping just the carbs and calories without all the other good shit. Study after study has shown that complex carbohydrates are associated with lean body mass.

2. Portion sizes. If you ever read the serving size on any box of pasta, bag of rice, whatever, you'll notice that most people eat like 6 or 7 servings every time they eat, no shit they're gonna get fat.

Take any athlete, anyone that eats for performance and not just to look a certain way. You'll find that that all eat carbs in abundance.
 
Reactions: Johnstown
May 16, 2013
3,364
1,751
I’m not gonna dog up the interview, but one of the guys who runs 40+ miles in a day does it by eating a lot of unsaturated fats.
I know smokers that have lived into their hundreds, guys the eat ice cream and Twinkies and have 6 packs, there's exceptions to every rule.

The guy you're talking about is Zach Bitter. Currently holds the record for fastest 100 mile race. Not only is he an exception and not the rule but if you actually read his diet you'll see that on his more intense training weeks he does take in low GI carbs like sweet potatoes and berries.
 
Reactions: Johnstown