Boris v Corbyn

Best PM would be

  • Corbyn

    Votes: 12 44.4%
  • Boris

    Votes: 15 55.6%

  • Total voters
    27

mandela

CHB Führer
May 16, 2013
22,103
9,812
Scotland
And this is the problem.

People think that Corbyn is flawed but morally right. They think that he might be a bit soft on a few things but that his heart is in the right place, that he genuinely cares. It's so wrong, it's unbelievable, yet people believe it.

Just out of interest, do you think that Corbyn was trying to 'do the right thing' when he was trying to get two striking workers freed from prison after they dropped a huge slab of concrete onto a taxi that was carrying a worker beyond the picket lines, committing brutal murder?
Yup.
 

Jack

P4P Star
Jul 29, 2012
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I do find it funny that the people who are the most disillusioned with politics, the most skeptical, are the ones who still believe that if you're on the left wing, you genuinely care about the people, whilst the right wing are just shills who are only interested in big businesses. It's staggering how people who will use arguments like "all politicians are the same" will then just accept whatever the socialists/communists say as sincere. It's just remarkable but look at the way people like Scargill are still revered today, despite crippling communities...but he said "I'm for workers!" so he must have meant it and been a very nice man.
 
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mandela

CHB Führer
May 16, 2013
22,103
9,812
Scotland
I do find it funny that the people who are the most disillusioned with politics, the most skeptical, are the ones who still believe that if you're on the left wing, you genuinely care about the people, whilst the right wing are just shills who are only interested in big businesses. It's staggering how people who will use arguments like "all politicians are the same" will then just accept whatever the socialists/communists say as sincere. It's just remarkable but look at the way people like Scargill are still revered today, despite crippling communities...but he said "I'm for workers!" so he must have meant it and been a very nice man.
You're literally the only person who thinks that.
 
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TFG

Jul 23, 2013
7,482
4,169
I do find it funny that the people who are the most disillusioned with politics, the most skeptical, are the ones who still believe that if you're on the left wing, you genuinely care about the people, whilst the right wing are just shills who are only interested in big businesses. It's staggering how people who will use arguments like "all politicians are the same" will then just accept whatever the socialists/communists say as sincere. It's just remarkable but look at the way people like Scargill are still revered today, despite crippling communities...but he said "I'm for workers!" so he must have meant it and been a very nice man.
Of course people who are genuinely left will care more about the average person, that's why they are left wing ffs, what a ridiculous statement :lol:

The funny thing this, a vast majority of right wingers wouldn't even deny that, those on here would have no issue saying they don't care about poor or vulnerable people.

Your argument has very little substance compared to decades of voting records that show Corbyn consistently voting for bills that would blatantly improve the life's of the working class and those most vulnerable. This can't be spun, there's no 'but what about immigration huh'...it doesn't need to be over complicated. He has voted that way for decades, often against his own party and career interests because he cares far more for the average person than Boris and co. You cant be that consistent for decades and not really be a good guy. I appreciate you don't agree with his politics but trying to paint him as immoral or any par with a Tory like Boris is just childish.

Of course it's riduclous to hold any politician to an impossible standard of morality, but we can definitely compare Boris and Corbyn.



Actually I take that back, you don't compare them when it comes to ethics and morality, it's a ridiculous comparison as the two don't even come close. That's just looking at voting records as well, forgetting Boris various racist remarks through the years. Particular attention to Boris record on the Environment, War and poor people, all of which show that he cares very little about the average working person.
 
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Jack

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Jul 29, 2012
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Of course people who are genuinely left will care more about the average person, that's why they are left wing ffs, what a ridiculous statement :lol:

The funny thing this, a vast majority of right wingers wouldn't even deny that, those on here would have no issue saying they don't care about poor or vulnerable people.
Neither do the left wing. They pander to the working class, poor and vulnerable yet exploit them at every opportunity, making the situation worse for them. Why do you think Labour are so hated throughout the north? It's because of how they run their councils, how the fuck over the majority in order to stay in power. They have torn apart communities in order purely to stay in power.

The idea that the average left winger cares more about people than the average right winger is staggering. Again, people think that the left hold all the moral positions but they don't, they just disagree with what the best ways are to create the same ideal scenario. The idea that right wingers genuinely care less just shows how effective propaganda is on some people.
 

mandela

CHB Führer
May 16, 2013
22,103
9,812
Scotland
Neither do the left wing. They pander to the working class, poor and vulnerable yet exploit them at every opportunity, making the situation worse for them. Why do you think Labour are so hated throughout the north? It's because of how they run their councils, how the fuck over the majority in order to stay in power. They have torn apart communities in order purely to stay in power.

The idea that the average left winger cares more about people than the average right winger is staggering. Again, people think that the left hold all the moral positions but they don't, they just disagree with what the best ways are to create the same ideal scenario. The idea that right wingers genuinely care less just shows how effective propaganda is on some people.
Not that your post makes any sense but it seems like you're conflating career politicians with with actual left wingers.

Just shows how effective propaganda is on some people.
 

TFG

Jul 23, 2013
7,482
4,169
Neither do the left wing. They pander to the working class, poor and vulnerable yet exploit them at every opportunity, making the situation worse for them. Why do you think Labour are so hated throughout the north? It's because of how they run their councils, how the fuck over the majority in order to stay in power. They have torn apart communities in order purely to stay in power.

The idea that the average left winger cares more about people than the average right winger is staggering. Again, people think that the left hold all the moral positions but they don't, they just disagree with what the best ways are to create the same ideal scenario. The idea that right wingers genuinely care less just shows how effective propaganda is on some people.
This is just pure delusion.

Firstly you're confusing two things. You disagreeing with what kind of policy positively effects the working class is not the same as the likes of Jeremy Corbyn being immoral simply because you disagree. We can go through the voting history if you like and you can tell me which votes were to 'tear working class communities apart'? Is it the votes against bedroom tax? Benefits for the disabled? You're going to have to help me. You are completely full of shit if you are genuinely claiming that these votes and policies from Corbyn were not actually done for the interest of the working class.

Why wouldn't the average left winger care more about normal people? You're trying to deny something that's an observable fact, there's polling data, voting history and decades of history that support this. Why don't we compare the past Labour manifesto with the Tory one and you can tell me why Labour don't care more about the working class. It's be a ridiculous exercise :lol:

As for working class people not supporting Labour, well there's plenty of reasons for that isn't there? Brexit is a starting point. Labour aren't backing brexit because they understand that a Tory led brexit will be terrible for the working class and every single shred of evidence from independent bodies support this. There's no evidence at all that the lowest paid and poorest people on society will benefit in any way from a Tory Brexit, yet there's substantial evidence to suggest the opposite. If you disagree with this then I want some actual evidence, same for one the classic immigration line when that comes as well, because there's little evidence for that too.

Then you've got the pathetic media coverage of Corbyn that has already proven to be ridiculously bias and full of lies. This isn't the first time people have been conned by the Tories and political establishment, it's not a new phenomena.

Your argument has no leg to stand on when it comes to morality. You won't dig down into voting records because you know you will look like an idiot. The only thing you will bring up, as always is immigration, despite the fact that all of the most comprehensive studies show that they being a net benefit to the economy whilst currently having very little effect on wage stagnation. Just because Labour disagree with you on the effects of immigration and what should be blamed on it, does not mean they are immoral, they just know better than you on this issue.
 
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TFG

Jul 23, 2013
7,482
4,169
Labour totally throwing the northern heartlands under the bus over Brexit

What a bunch of cunts
What makes you think Brexit would benefit anyone in the Northern heartlands?

All in the evidence suggest those in the North will be hardest hit by a Tory Brexit. The overall evidence is overwhelming and show one thing pretty clearly, the majority of people and families will be objectively worse off under a Tory Brexit.

That's why all of they key players, including the likes of Farage who you support, laughed at the idea of a no deal brexit before the referendum and confirmed how terrible it would be :lol:
 
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What makes you think Brexit would benefit anyone in the Northern heartlands?

All in the evidence suggest those in the North will be hardest hit by a Tory Brexit. The overall evidence is overwhelming and show one thing pretty clearly, the majority of people and families will be objectively worse off under a Tory Brexit.

That's why all of they key players, including the likes of Farage who you support, laughed at the idea of a no deal brexit before the referendum and confirmed how terrible it would be :lol:
You mean such as me?

What an absolute load of shite. No deal would be no deal for about a week.
 
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Jack

P4P Star
Jul 29, 2012
7,937
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Why wouldn't the average left winger care more about normal people?
It's staggering to go from saying "your opinion is wrong and mine is right" to then "this group is morally right and the other are morally wrong". You're talking about millions of people yet are perfectly happy to make such sweeping statements. I didn't read most of your post but I do find it a shame when people like yourself are so indoctrinated, and I don't mean that in a patronising way either, I think it is sad. Being from a working class background, I've grown up around people like this my entire life and it's disappointing to see how easily manipulated people are into accepting this us vs. them mentality and being sold that there's a moral difference.
 
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TFG

Jul 23, 2013
7,482
4,169
It's staggering to go from saying "your opinion is wrong and mine is right" to then "this group is morally right and the other are morally wrong". You're talking about millions of people yet are perfectly happy to make such sweeping statements. I didn't read most of your post but I do find it a shame when people like yourself are so indoctrinated, and I don't mean that in a patronising way either, I think it is sad. Being from a working class background, I've grown up around people like this my entire life and it's disappointing to see how easily manipulated people are into accepting this us vs. them mentality and being sold that there's a moral difference.
More nonsense. You didn't reply to the rest of the post because I requested you provide evidence for your arguments, and that's usually your cue to bail.

As for being indoctrinated, that's genuinely hilarious. I'm not even a Labour fan and I regularly tear them, and the 'woke' left to pieces whenever I can. The question is Boris v Corbyn, and if you are genuinely making the argument that there's no moral difference between the two, you're not just misinformed, but genuinely stupid. There's no way you could get that so wrong. I give you the opportunity to substantiate your views by going through the voting record but of course that would wouldn't support your narrative.

Its a shame that people like you still pretend to care about the working class and use this 'I grew up around these people' as some kind of backward justification. The average bloke on the street will have more in common with the average immigrant in this country than they ever will with Boris Johnson or anyone of his class. The idea that there's no moral difference between politicians that have dedicated their lives to fighting for the rights of poor people, compared to someone who has spent years taking those rights away doesn't even make sense :lol:

Bare in mind I've seen you debate this kind of stuff for years on here so I already know you couldn't give a fuck about the working class and makes me cringe every time you bring it up. Remember the fish fingers?
 

TFG

Jul 23, 2013
7,482
4,169
Imagine being 'indoctrinated' to the point you believe there's no moral difference between Jeremy Corbyn and Boris Johnson :lol:

On one hand you have a guy who has actively voted against all measures to increase disability benefit, access to emergency loans, voted against all climate change legislation, ardently pro war in Iraq and foreign intervention anywhere (Aye he really cares about those working class lads dying in Iraq) and of course votes in favour of all tax cuts to the rich and believed the poor should pay the biggest burden for his banker mates crashing the economy.

Against a guy who has constantly voted on the right side of history for decades, anti war, anti austerity, pro equal rights etc his entire career has been dedicated to pushing forward legislation that helps poor people. As a shadow minister he got several key push backs on Cameron legislation that would have made working class people even poorer.

These aren't just political differences, they are moral differences. Boris doesn't care about the environment because there's little short term gain for him and his backers, Corbyn cares because he cares about the planet. Boris doesn't get about the rights of disabled people because they are beneath him and don't make the economy look any better on paper. Corbyn genuinely cares about people at the bottom of the society who are most vulnerable. If you actually think this is some kind of insincere act, you're possibly the worst judge of character to ever exist.

Corbyn has some very questionable political traits and decision making but the idea that he doesn't have the best interests of the average working man at heart is utterly ridiculous
 

Jack

P4P Star
Jul 29, 2012
7,937
1,741
More nonsense. You didn't reply to the rest of the post because I requested you provide evidence for your arguments, and that's usually your cue to bail.
Because you're fixated on talking about politicians, I'm not. I'm talking about your belief that the left wing population of this country have moral superiority over the right leaning people, a completely ridiculous statement. People always think that the class divide comes from the top in this country but there is far more resentment of the wealthy in traditionally left wing working class towns than I've ever experienced from wealtier, traditionally right wing areas. Snobbery is far less of an issue than the resentment for those who have wealth.

Bare in mind I've seen you debate this kind of stuff for years on here so I already know you couldn't give a fuck about the working class and makes me cringe every time you bring it up. Remember the fish fingers?
You mean the time I was proven right? The only thing that happened there was that left wingers got proved wrong and then refused to back down so, quite typically, ganged up and repeated the same things over and over. The BBC recently did an article on the exact same thing I mentioned and here's another article from a few years ago backing my argument up:


"With careful planning, an adult could spend as little as £12 per week on a healthy, balanced diet, says Tom Sanders, a professor of nutrition at Kings College London. "

Bear in mind that all these things are just based off RRP and don't take into account the meals you can make for pennies if you go to markets, butchers etc. and shop around.

But yeah, I was wrong...apparently. The only reason you jump to that argument isn't because you think I actually was wrong, I clearly and factually wasn't, it's just an attempt to get the left wing clique on your side, people like Lunny, JamieC and Mandela. I think the last two are on my ignore list so I wouldn't know but I imagine this is the case.
 
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TFG

Jul 23, 2013
7,482
4,169
Because you're fixated on talking about politicians, I'm not. I'm talking about your belief that the left wing population of this country have moral superiority over the right leaning people, a completely ridiculous statement. People always think that the class divide comes from the top in this country but there is far more resentment of the wealthy in traditionally left wing working class towns than I've ever experienced from wealtier, traditionally right wing areas. Snobbery is far less of an issue than the resentment for those who have wealth.

You mean the time I was proven right? The only thing that happened there was that left wingers got proved wrong and then refused to back down so, quite typically, ganged up and repeated the same things over and over. The BBC recently did an article on the exact same thing I mentioned and here's another article from a few years ago backing my argument up:


"With careful planning, an adult could spend as little as £12 per week on a healthy, balanced diet, says Tom Sanders, a professor of nutrition at Kings College London. "

Bear in mind that all these things are just based off RRP and don't take into account the meals you can make for pennies if you go to markets, butchers etc. and shop around.

But yeah, I was wrong...apparently. The only reason you jump to that argument isn't because you think I actually was wrong, I clearly and factually wasn't, it's just an attempt to get the left wing clique on your side, people like Lunny, JamieC and Mandela. I think the last two are on my ignore list so I wouldn't know but I imagine this is the case.
Hang on, the thread is literally about politicians :lol:

All of your arguments in your first two posts were based around politicians so don't try and move the goal posts just because I've posted some facts that you can't argue against. You claimed they tear working class communities apart, don't have their interests at heart etc, all of this in a thread specifically titled Boris v Corbyn.

You clearly thing there's no moral difference between the two so the floor is yours, I've already included their voting records, made it nice and easy. Do you disagree with the claim that Corbyn has a better moral compass than Boris?

While you're at it, why not back up your original point abiut Corbyn not genuinely caring about poor people without monging out over false immigration arguments.
 

mandela

CHB Führer
May 16, 2013
22,103
9,812
Scotland
I hope so. Means we have a real brexit and have got out and I have no doubt that will focus minds on a future trade deal - which Mays deal didn’t even manage to do
:rofl

You went from a Norway deal, to an efta deal, to Deal or No Deal, to a Canada deal to a better than a Norway or Canada deal, to any deal at all to No deal is the best outcome.

Literally no idea what you're talking about. You're a dumb fat bigot who can't get past "EU bAd liTtlE enGlAnd go0d".
 

TFG

Jul 23, 2013
7,482
4,169
So after we've finished this official negotiating period, that's when we will actually negotiate a deal with the EU? :lol:

Aye I can really see that playing out. There's no individual negotiations to be played out with member states, it all goes through the EU. If we leave without a deal, we will be getting no deal with them for the foreseeable future.

Funny that, because Farage, Boris etc all said that would be a disastrous outcome before the vote.
 
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Nov 19, 2018
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:rofl

You went from a Norway deal, to an efta deal, to Deal or No Deal, to a Canada deal to a better than a Norway or Canada deal, to any deal at all to No deal is the best outcome.

Literally no idea what you're talking about. You're a dumb fat bigot who can't get past "EU bAd liTtlE enGlAnd go0d".
Little England? No no no I’m clearly advocating global Britain (inc Scotland).

Quite obviously remainders have cucked one sided relationships where no manner of abuse can lead to walking away. Even when it’s obvious we stand to gain and they stand to lose magnitudes more.

I’m also 88kg no Mandy so piss off. Perfect bmi
 
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