Developing mental tensions in opponents defense

[Cozy]

Please add your own, and share any of your thoughts on how you manipulate your opponent

- observe where they are slack
- probe to check if current defence it is dynamic or statically defended
- what type of defence is it? parry? covering? block? smothering? movement?
- what happens to their balance?
- judge speed needed to beat their reflex action and counter reaction (what is the reaction, circling away, or firing back?)
- judge how much a distraction or hit to another area slows their reflexes
- can you weaken the guard or expose it to bad angles?
- do they get sloppy? if so what is the best way to capitalise? assuming a hit, what followup combo is optimal?

Doing all these things is good, but tension can be developed by
- opposing the tempo and pacing by acting in half beats
- changing pace and style of punches
- making things difficult, and not fun to walk up to, cutting their adjustments off but keeping awake to them using your movements to sync up their timing
- body head combinations, same side twice, shifting angles to create chaos then body shots or jabs to create a steam in them

Feel free to add, thats just at the top of my head

 

[Davie]

- what type of defence is it? parry? covering? block? smothering? movement?
- what happens to their balance?

You've got variety of defence. Thoughts on variety of head movement?

Everyone says "move your head" but there are rather distinct types of head movement with their own strengths and weaknesses to be exploited.

I usually break it into three categories

1. Pro-active head movement,
someone with a fluid style, where head movement comes as second nature. Can be used to make your opponent miss as he's constantly aiming at a moving target (the obvious reason for head movement) but it can become predictable and rhythmic, which makes it something that can be used by an opponent to time you and put you under pressure (mental tension if you will), if he can start to guess where your head is likely to be next.
You could split this one into 2 categories I suppose, as you then have the kind of herky jerky unpredictable head movement, the likes of which Fury so successfully deployed.

2. Reactive head movement.
Wait till the shots thrown and move. Again has obvious defensive benefits. Get's you out of the way of shots, you're reacting to the shot, so you can judge where to move to and isn't just movement for movements sake,
but by fuck you need to be quicker than your opponent both physically and in terms of mental response times or it's redundant.
Can again become predictable, if you wait for a shot, then always move back, the opponent can move in with straight shots, if you slip to one side repeatedly, your opponent knows where to go, duck every time, the next shot is aimed at your chest. Needs to be tailored to the shot you are avoiding, not just wait till you see his hand move and move your head (easier said than done, no doubt)

3. The after thought.
You get fighter who don't do head movement. It's a fault but I honestly think, sometimes the last thing you want to tell your fighter to do is move their head, just for the sake of it.
I watched a domestic level fight a while back and remember commenting in a rbr thread that it was obvious he had to think about it.
His corner had berated him for not moving his head, he came out the next round, jabbed, jabbed, stopped, then just this random bit of head movement for no discernible reason and back to working behind the guard. The head movement achieved nothing and you could just tell he had to think about it and just got to a point where he thought "what next, oh aye, head movement"
Some fighter it doesn't come naturally too, we call them big stiff idiots. But if you can't do something well leave it alone and move your feet, use your guard or you're going to have to use your offence as your defence, because doing something as an after thought, is worse than not doing it at all.

 

[tommygun711]

feinting, which is a lost art nowadays

touching the jab up top and to the body.

throwing awkward combinations like triple left hooks or doubling up on the right hand

 

[Cozy]

You've got variety of defence. Thoughts on variety of head movement?

Everyone says "move your head" but there are rather distinct types of head movement with their own strengths and weaknesses to be exploited.

I usually break it into three categories

1. Pro-active head movement,
someone with a fluid style, where head movement comes as second nature.

2. Reactive head movement.
Wait till the shots thrown and move.

3. The after thought.
You get fighter who don't do head movement. It's a fault but I honestly think, sometimes the last thing you want to tell your fighter to do is move their head, just for the sake of it.
But if you can't do something well leave it alone and move your feet, use your guard or you're going to have to use your offence as your defence, because doing something as an after thought, is worse than not doing it at all.

I totally agree, and I think guys who are bad at head movement do not learn to seperate it into categories like this.
I've spent a lot of time on head movement to get it right, and it is a lot more complicated and sophisticated than just moving your head.
I spend the most time on footwork, the next most time on my guard, the next most time on combinations, then my time goes to evasion.
Even though it is fourth on my list, I spend a ton of time on it.

There are different ways to use head movement like you said, but then there are styles
Side to side (mike tyson)
ducking (randy turpin)
slip and pivot (rigandeux)
duck get outside, duck get outside (roy jones)
back pedaling, with ducks, and forward pressure with counters (mayweather)
rolling and stepping out and back (sugar ray robinson)
T-slipping (marvin cook)(where you stand in a straight line and pivot and lean)

And understanding WHY that style is used and how it works is important or you just cant integrate it into your own style.
Mike is about loading up, randy was about getting under jabs and bringing up shots, rigandeux is about leading a guy around corners into shots, roy jones was about pressure and misdirection, mayweather was about getting in more shots than the opponent during bursts of defence and controlling your man, sugar was about variety and shifting to swing a person around into a shot, and marvins style is to stay clear headed and shoot back like a rifle.

There are many more styles of evasion, each style unique.
And you can't really do them unless you work on it a lot until it becomes natural.
But it is hard to develop if you are not persistent enough at "finding the way".
But it is part of boxing so you gotta do that hard work...

You gotta understand how to move to 1-2s, 3s, 2s, 5s, 1-2-3-5s, etc
How to manage and steer the pressure off of you, when to interupt, plant and counter
When to shell up, when to clinch and reverse positions

It is tricky but once you get into it, there is a lot of fun to be had xD

 

[Davie]

I totally agree, and I think guys who are bad at head movement do not learn to seperate it into categories like this.
I've spent a lot of time on head movement to get it right, and it is a lot more complicated and sophisticated than just moving your head.
I spend the most time on footwork, the next most time on my guard, the next most time on combinations, then my time goes to evasion.
Even though it is fourth on my list, I spend a ton of time on it.

There are different ways to use head movement like you said, but then there are styles
Side to side (mike tyson)
ducking (randy turpin)
slip and pivot (rigandeux)
duck get outside, duck get outside (roy jones)
back pedaling, with ducks, and forward pressure with counters (mayweather)
rolling and stepping out and back (sugar ray robinson)
T-slipping (marvin cook)(where you stand in a straight line and pivot and lean)

And understanding WHY that style is used and how it works is important or you just cant integrate it into your own style.
Mike is about loading up, randy was about getting under jabs and bringing up shots, rigandeux is about leading a guy around corners into shots, roy jones was about pressure and misdirection, mayweather was about getting in more shots than the opponent during bursts of defence and controlling your man, sugar was about variety and shifting to swing a person around into a shot, and marvins style is to stay clear headed and shoot back like a rifle.

There are many more styles of evasion, each style unique.
And you can't really do them unless you work on it a lot until it becomes natural.
But it is hard to develop if you are not persistent enough at "finding the way".
But it is part of boxing so you gotta do that hard work...

You gotta understand how to move to 1-2s, 3s, 2s, 5s, 1-2-3-5s, etc
How to manage and steer the pressure off of you, when to interupt, plant and counter
When to shell up, when to clinch and reverse positions

It is tricky but once you get into it, there is a lot of fun to be had xD

I enjoy your posts @Cozy, you need to make more of them

Regis Prograis was an excellent example of fluid pro-active head movement last night against Flanagan.
It was unpredictable and also set him up nice angle to throw counters from, a joy to watch, even if I was rooting for Terry

 

[Cozy]

I enjoy your posts @Cozy, you need to make more of them

Regis Prograis was an excellent example of fluid pro-active head movement last night against Flanagan.
It was unpredictable and also set him up nice angle to throw counters from, a joy to watch, even if I was rooting for Terry

I like flanagan, he's got great hand speed and uses his feet well to get in and out,
He has more potential than he is using though, like, if he changed angle more...
Just a few feints, ducks, and pivots, would be well worth the investment.
You bait a counter with the feint, change level under it, pivot to upset the angle he is slipping on and launch a couple shots (even if its just a 1-2 or 5-2 or 4-3 it'd preoccupy prograis).

Prograis has very nice movement, very smooth, there are even tips I can take away from his style
The slow stalking slipping movement, I really like that, even though twitching more like tyson fury might be more off putting (because you time when prograis moves slow and put a counter on him)
He does twitch fast at times but it is more based on his on energy level and excitement rather than the distancing.
His reaction speed is a bit slow when he is moving slow, but that is why it is so good hes moving ahead of time, cuz it at least mixes it up.
But he is moving faster enough, so it isn't a big deal.

Prograis knows to duck after a lead rear hand, good man! But he consistantly sits there in the pocket after he puts out lighter shots and gets clipped by flanagan after he lands.

Something most don't know about head movement is, it is a strategy to lower punch output of your opponent, this is a big purpose to pro-active head movement.
It makes a guy pick his shots, rather than punch at will, allowing you to bait him into counter shots and overall lower his punch output so you can then tee off on him standing still. You see flanagan very affected by this in the fight (his punch rate dips significantly), but he stays disciplined so gets his shots back in in return.
Prograis is a little off on this part of it...
He sits in the pocket after a shot too much, he doesn't use the ability to bait shots, or change angle after shots or before.
I'd like it better if when he tee'd up shots, he jab, angled out, and shot from there, cuz he gets lit up by flanagan staying in the pocket too long after a shot.

Prograis effectively SLOWS flannigan, but he doesn't effectively EXPLOIT that as much as he could.
Which is just him not being conscious of the right things while he is slipping. He's probably focusing too much on what he is great at, and isn't focusing on HOW to maximise it. If he could do THAT, oh boy...
He would then just have to use his feet more, and he'd be very dangerous.

Overall good fight with two excellent fighters.
And you are right, proactive head movement is adding a lot of tension tactically.
I will have to think on this.