Does Anybody Actually Favor Wilder vs. AJ?

Jun 4, 2013
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Yeah dude, that fight ocurred in a vacuum. C'mon. :rolleyes
C’mon, you think Wilder and Ruiz share any similarities? Ruiz was a novel and unique style for Joshua. Even an experienced amateur like Usyk struggles against smaller, faster opponents.
 
May 26, 2019
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C’mon, you think Wilder and Ruiz share any similarities? Ruiz was a novel and unique style for Joshua. Even an experienced amateur like Usyk struggles against smaller, faster opponents.
Are you completely unwilling to acknowledge that there is overlap on the Wilder-Ruiz Venn diagram? I'll clue you in: there is. Neither one folds under pressure. Both are really, really good at catching fighters coming in. Both have fast hands and real power, and can deliver it accurately with punches timed inside with short arcs. Both are deadly finishers. One is tall and lean, the other is comparitively short and obese. But the commonalities spell trouble for AJ. And Wilder now seems to rival Shavers for power.

Last night provides ample reason to doubt AJ has sufficient ability to deal with these attributes, adapt to a Plan B, fight defend and recover when hurt, move his head off the center line, and take an elite punch. His chin, heart, and fundamental defense are huge questions right now, and legitimately so.

So i dont give a shit that AJ got his ass beat all over the ring by Butterbean 2.0 last night. You better fucking believe it means something in assessing his chances against Wilder.
 
Jun 4, 2013
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Are you completely unwilling to acknowledge that there is overlap on the Wilder-Ruiz Venn diagram? I'll clue you in: there is. Neither one folds under pressure. Both are really, really good at catching fighters coming in. Both have fast hands and real power, and can deliver it accurately with punches timed inside with short arcs. Both are deadly finishers. One is tall and lean, the other is comparitively short and obese. But the commonalities spell trouble for AJ. And Wilder now seems to rival Shavers for power.

Last night provides ample reason to doubt AJ has sufficient ability to deal with these attributes, adapt to a Plan B, fight defend and recover when hurt, move his head off the center line, and take an elite punch. His chin, heart, and fundamental defense are huge questions right now, and legitimately so.

So i dont give a shit that AJ got his ass beat all over the ring by Butterbean 2.0 last night. You better fucking believe it means something in assessing his chances against Wilder.
It doesn’t mean shit. If Wilder catches Joshua there is no need to adapt or for plan B, it’s over. If Joshua connects with punches to Wilder like Fury did then it’s over for Wilder. It’s a 50/50 fight, same as before the Ruiz fight.
Again back to my original point, the Ruiz fight has absolutely no relevance to the Wilder fight. It has some relevance to how Usyk might do against Joshua, but that’s it.
There is nothing in common between Wilder and Ruiz. Don’t try to tell me that Wilder doesn’t have a shaky chin himself. Joshua has also shown more evidence of not folding under pressure than Wilder (Wlad, Whyte vs Ortiz). Wilder folded against Fury, he got his ass kicked and lost his balls from the start. If Fury had some power it would’ve been over and easily for Wilder. His only moments in that fight were the knockdowns, and he still got backed down and beaten up for the rest of those rounds.
Don’t make the claim that Wilder is some sort of unbeatable beast, that just makes you an idiot. I’d pick Ruiz to beat Wilder as well btw. Wilder has had two actual fights, he got dominated in one and hurt in the other with him behind on the scorecard. There’s no guarantee he is going to get through Ortiz and Fury again, by a long shot. Even with the loss Joshua is still more proven than Wilder.
You’re an idiot if you infer from one fight how another fight is going to go against a different opponent, in any situation. Then you add in how different Ruiz is from Wilder, and the specific context of Joshua at this point in time in his first US fight.... this complete lack of context is the same issue that caused every moron on here to write off Lomachenko after the Salido fight.

People just need to listen to me, I’m clearly in the 99.9th percentile of insight and intelligence here (not a great achievement, that’s probably average intelligence in the general population).
 
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kf3

Jul 17, 2012
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i saw someone say fury clearly beat wilder i forget what point i was going to make, counting to 12 is not hard.

something about wilder possibly fighting a stiverne 1 type fight coz he knows joshua can hurt him with one shot.
 

kf3

Jul 17, 2012
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He did...
you are saying wilder clearly didn't win 3 rounds of the 10 without knockdowns. (without any even score rounds)

we can both agree the card that had wilder way ahead was bullshit, but fury clearly won? nope. fury was not active enough in a bunch of the early rounds.

watch it again and score like boxing scoring, the 'fury won easily' tabloid nonsense is just that.
 
Jun 4, 2013
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you are saying wilder clearly didn't win 3 rounds of the 10 without knockdowns. (without any even score rounds)

we can both agree the card that had wilder way ahead was bullshit, but fury clearly won? nope. fury was not active enough in a bunch of the early rounds.

watch it again and score like boxing scoring, the 'fury won easily' tabloid nonsense is just that.
Fury won every round, he was even winning the rounds that he got dropped in. Anybody who thinks that fight wasn’t one-sided for Fury are living on another planet.
 
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Ar558a

Fighting the Fury loving Scum
Jun 2, 2019
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Before Sat I had Joshua a 60/40 favourite. Now it has to be a 50/50 fight. Still think the normal AJ (not Sat version) can outbox Wilder (not hard as he can't box) but Wilder still has the punch power. I doubt we'll see the fight until at least 2021 assuming AJ beats Ruiz in the rematch and Wilder beats both Ortiz and Fury. I think it is much easier to make the fight in some ways if these happen as AJ hasn't the 0 to defend and Wilder really believes he can win and will stop dodging him. Hopefully it will happen before one of them loses again. Wilder v Fury II will be an obstacle but I hope he puts that mouthy g#t down for good this time.
 
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It doesn’t mean shit. If Wilder catches Joshua there is no need to adapt or for plan B, it’s over. If Joshua connects with punches to Wilder like Fury did then it’s over for Wilder. It’s a 50/50 fight, same as before the Ruiz fight.
Difference is, the analysis of the fight changed, because Joshua's chin now seems even more questionable. There were big questions about Fury's chin heading into the Wilder fight. After all, he'd been decked by a cruiserweight. But Fury was able to do an Undertaker impression in the 12th round after getting obliterated. Based on what we saw of Joshua on Saturday, does he have the physical and emotional ability to do that? Well, we got more data, and it sure doesn't seem like it.

Again back to my original point, the Ruiz fight has absolutely no relevance to the Wilder fight. It has some relevance to how Usyk might do against Joshua, but that’s it.
Not so, for all the reasons I listed, and you ignored. You seem to only focus on the "tale of the tape" and other obvious physical match-ups, while ignoring all the info we got on less tangible aspects of Joshua's game.


There is nothing in common between Wilder and Ruiz.
.

There is. I listed about half a dozen. You just ignored it.

Don’t try to tell me that Wilder doesn’t have a shaky chin himself.
I didn't. But that's not the point. What I was discussing is what we learned of JOSHUA on Saturday, not Wilder.

Joshua has also shown more evidence of not folding under pressure than Wilder (Wlad, Whyte vs Ortiz).
Again, you're ignoring the point. The argument was that the Ruiz fight provided no reason to alter opinions on Wilder-Joshua. We learned more about Joshua, so you're wrong. Most crucially, we saw Joshua not want to step out of his corner when he was asked if he wanted to continue. He showed quit. Go watch Tim Bradley fight Provodkinov, when Tim was fucked up out of his mind from the second round on. Does AJ have that kind of mental fortitude? Could he push himself past his limits if Wilder took him to that place? After what we learned Saturday, smart money is against it.

Wilder folded against Fury, he got his ass kicked and lost his balls from the start. If Fury had some power it would’ve been over and easily for Wilder. His only moments in that fight were the knockdowns, and he still got backed down and beaten up for the rest of those rounds.
This is beside the point, but it is also inaccurate. Wilder faced adversity and never quit trying. Pulled a draw out of a loss in the process by dropping Fury twice.

Don’t make the claim that Wilder is some sort of unbeatable beast, that just makes you an idiot.
I didn't. Nor could you construe anything I said as remotely suggesting it.

I’d pick Ruiz to beat Wilder as well btw. Wilder has had two actual fights, he got dominated in one and hurt in the other with him behind on the scorecard. There’s no guarantee he is going to get through Ortiz and Fury again, by a long shot. Even with the loss Joshua is still more proven than Wilder.
You’re an idiot if you infer from one fight how another fight is going to go against a different opponent, in any situation. Then you add in how different Ruiz is from Wilder, and the specific context of Joshua at this point in time in his first US fight.... this complete lack of context is the same issue that caused every moron on here to write off Lomachenko after the Salido fight.
Again, you miss the point. Point is, we learned things about AJ that are relevant to the Wilder fight, regardless of the physical differences of the opponents.

People just need to listen to me, I’m clearly in the 99.9th percentile of insight and intelligence here (not a great achievement, that’s probably average intelligence in the general population).
Sure thing, bro.
 
Jun 4, 2013
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Difference is, the analysis of the fight changed, because Joshua's chin now seems even more questionable. There were big questions about Fury's chin heading into the Wilder fight. After all, he'd been decked by a cruiserweight. But Fury was able to do an Undertaker impression in the 12th round after getting obliterated. Based on what we saw of Joshua on Saturday, does he have the physical and emotional ability to do that? Well, we got more data, and it sure doesn't seem like it.


Not so, for all the reasons I listed, and you ignored. You seem to only focus on the "tale of the tape" and other obvious physical match-ups, while ignoring all the info we got on less tangible aspects of Joshua's game.


.

There is. I listed about half a dozen. You just ignored it.



I didn't. But that's not the point. What I was discussing is what we learned of JOSHUA on Saturday, not Wilder.


Again, you're ignoring the point. The argument was that the Ruiz fight provided no reason to alter opinions on Wilder-Joshua. We learned more about Joshua, so you're wrong. Most crucially, we saw Joshua not want to step out of his corner when he was asked if he wanted to continue. He showed quit. Go watch Tim Bradley fight Provodkinov, when Tim was fucked up out of his mind from the second round on. Does AJ have that kind of mental fortitude? Could he push himself past his limits if Wilder took him to that place? After what we learned Saturday, smart money is against it.


This is beside the point, but it is also inaccurate. Wilder faced adversity and never quit trying. Pulled a draw out of a loss in the process by dropping Fury twice.


I didn't. Nor could you construe anything I said as remotely suggesting it.



Again, you miss the point. Point is, we learned things about AJ that are relevant to the Wilder fight, regardless of the physical differences of the opponents.



Sure thing, bro.
Everything you’ve written is predicated on the idea that we learned something about Joshua. Are you telling me that you weren’t sure that Wilder could stop Joshua before the Ruiz fight? I now think that maybe Wilder can’t knockout Ruiz, but I always thought that Wilder would send Joshua to another world if he lands clean.
Ruiz and Wilder share nothing in common. Wilder isn’t fast, isn’t a combination puncher, can’t counter, can’t set up shots. Their stature and style are two polar opposites.
People talking about Joshua quitting aren’t being reasonable, he was detached from his senses. He said he wanted to continue but he was holding himself up by the ropes. As much as I don’t think much about Joshua’s ability I don’t ever doubt his resilience and character. He has the runs on the board with his comebacks against Whyte and Wlad. Same for Wilder with the Ortiz fight, despite how limited Wilder is as a fighter he showed something there. Against Fury he wasn’t hurt and he seemed to go into a shell at times.
So what exactly is relevant to the Wilder fight? Do you think Wilder is going to hurt Joshua and Joshua is going to get worn down? You’re either underestimating Wilder’s power or overestimating Joshua’s chin. You’re talking about factors that certainly aren’t a factor in the Wilder-Joshua match up.
 
Aug 28, 2014
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Everything you’ve written is predicated on the idea that we learned something about Joshua. Are you telling me that you weren’t sure that Wilder could stop Joshua before the Ruiz fight? I now think that maybe Wilder can’t knockout Ruiz, but I always thought that Wilder would send Joshua to another world if he lands clean.
Ruiz and Wilder share nothing in common. Wilder isn’t fast, isn’t a combination puncher, can’t counter, can’t set up shots. Their stature and style are two polar opposites.
People talking about Joshua quitting aren’t being reasonable, he was detached from his senses. He said he wanted to continue but he was holding himself up by the ropes. As much as I don’t think much about Joshua’s ability I don’t ever doubt his resilience and character. He has the runs on the board with his comebacks against Whyte and Wlad. Same for Wilder with the Ortiz fight, despite how limited Wilder is as a fighter he showed something there. Against Fury he wasn’t hurt and he seemed to go into a shell at times.
So what exactly is relevant to the Wilder fight? Do you think Wilder is going to hurt Joshua and Joshua is going to get worn down? You’re either underestimating Wilder’s power or overestimating Joshua’s chin. You’re talking about factors that certainly aren’t a factor in the Wilder-Joshua match up.
Dont bother arguing with @Dealt_with hes a narcissist, sociopath internet arguing retard, ive met many of them that just love to argue because they are insecure, you will never win in an argument because they are depressed and suicidal in real life they always got a comeback