ESPN The Last Dance Documentary

Haggis

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May 16, 2013
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1) Does the series show what an utter wanker and psychopath Jordan is?

2) Is there a realistic case to be made for LeBron to be the GOAT yet?

:hat
 
Jun 22, 2013
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1) Apparently. One of the reasons Jordan was so hesitant to let the footage be released all this time. I haven't seen it yet, though.

2) Yep. I disagree that Jordan was the undisputed GOAT even prior to LeBron, though. They're both in the conversation.
 
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Dec 7, 2016
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1) Does the series show what an utter wanker and psychopath Jordan is?

2) Is there a realistic case to be made for LeBron to be the GOAT yet?

:hat

Jordan and Lebron can each do things the other can't so to me they are really close but it just depends on the situation they are in. Lebron will win more with a weak team but Jordan will win more with a good team. But there are 5 others players at that level. Lebron does physically dominate more so than Jordan but Jordan's skill and desire make up for it.
 

Bachafach^^^

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1) Does the series show what an utter wanker and psychopath Jordan is?

2) Is there a realistic case to be made for LeBron to be the GOAT yet?

:hat
The Jordan rules came out in the 90's so most of his sociopathic tendencies are already know and most people love it for some reason.

Jordan has a fanatical following, (ive legit had people flip out on me in real life questioning his airness) similar to Kobe which prevents any real examination of his career and accomplishments. He's the face of the largest clothing manufacturer in the world and the NBA owes it's popularity largely to him.

Put it this way, a big Jordan Stan argument is that Jordan is 6 for 6 in NBA finals and that LeBron is 3 for 8. Thus Jordan is perfect and LeBron is flawed, nevermind the fact that Jordan won 1 playoff game in 3 seasons and didn't get to the finals until his 8th season.

I think this next generation of kids don't see Jordan as the undisputed GOAT and that generally competition today is tougher which of course is the reality for nearly all sports.
 
Dec 7, 2016
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The Jordan rules came out in the 90's so most of his sociopathic tendencies are already know and most people love it for some reason.

Jordan has a fanatical following, similar to Kobe which prevents any real examination of his career and accomplishments. He's the face of the largest clothing manufacturer in the world and the NBA owes it's popularity largely to him.

Put it this way, a big Jordan Stan argument is that Jordan is 6 for 6 in NBA finals and that LeBron is 3 for 8. Thus Jordan is perfect and LeBron is flawed, nevermind the fact that Jordan won 1 playoff game in 3 seasons and didn't get to the finals until his 8th season.

I think this next generation of kids don't see Jordan as the undisputed GOAT and that generally competition today is tougher which of course is the reality for nearly all sports.

How old are you? Did you watch Jordan during his career?
 
Jun 5, 2013
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I just don't see how anybody who saw both players at their peak can put forth an argument for LeBron being the GOAT. GOATs don't disappear in finals like LeBron did in the 2011 finals.

Everytime it mattered in the finals Jordan showed up. Dude has 6 finals mvp. Nobody else has more than 3.
 
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Davvers

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The defences were the same for everyone. If it was so easy to score against these punks every heavy scoring player would have been a Hall of Famer.

Chicago Bulls were still a basketball dynasty, MJ was without a doubt the best of his era.
 

Bachafach^^^

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The defences were the same for everyone. If it was so easy to score against these punks every heavy scoring player would have been a Hall of Famer.

Chicago Bulls were still a basketball dynasty, MJ was without a doubt the best of his era.
No doubt. It's why Bird referred to him as a God. Nobody was scoring and doing the things on the court that Jordan was and accolades we see there is a good argument for him being the GOAT, but Jordan Stan's deify him to the point nobody should be close, which isn't true.
 
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No doubt. It's why Bird referred to him as a God. Nobody was scoring and doing the things on the court that Jordan was and accolades we see there is a good argument for him being the GOAT, but Jordan Stan's deify him to the point nobody should be close, which isn't true.

Bird is another one at the top.
 
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I just don't see how anybody who saw both players at their peak can put forth an argument for LeBron being the GOAT. GOATs don't disappear in finals like LeBron did in the 2011 finals.

Everytime it mattered in the finals Jordan was showed up. Dude has 6 finals mvp. Nobody else has more than 3.

Lebron also seriously challenged with shit teams. That is something Jordan never did and i don't believe ever could. Like I said they could each do things the other one could not. I don't really have a strong opinion on it and I can see why people call Jordan the Goat but its close between 7 players to me. Russell, Wilt,Jabbar,Bird,Magic,Jordan, and Lebron. I might disagree if someone calls some of those 7 the Goat but I don't think its ridiculous to name any of them.
To me Russell and Jordan slightly make the best cases but again its not ridiculous to think any of the others do.
 
Jun 22, 2013
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Lebron also seriously challenged with shit teams. That is something Jordan never did and i don't believe ever could. Like I said they could each do things the other one could not. I don't really have a strong opinion on it and I can see why people call Jordan the Goat but its close between 7 players to me. Russell, Wilt,Jabbar,Bird,Magic,Jordan, and Lebron. I might disagree if someone calls some of those 7 the Goat but I don't think its ridiculous to name any of them.
To me Russell and Jordan slightly make the best cases but again its not ridiculous to think any of the others do.
Russell
Wilt
Kareem
Magic
Bird
Jordan
LeBron

In chronological order, those are the giants of the game. I'm 100% with you there.
 
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Jun 5, 2013
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Not ever watched a single game of basketball but decided to watch this.

There are a few things I’ve learned:

Jordan is some physical specimen
The guy with the weird-shaped head didn’t get the credit he deserved....nor the money.
Jordan really doesn’t like signing autographs or even engaging with fans.
Agents probably weren’t a thing back then?
Basketball really isn’t my thing.
 
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Haggis

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May 16, 2013
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I just don't see how anybody who saw both players at their peak can put forth an argument for LeBron being the GOAT. GOATs don't disappear in finals like LeBron did in the 2011 finals.

Everytime it mattered in the finals Jordan showed up. Dude has 6 finals mvp. Nobody else has more than 3.
Who gives a fuck about MVPs? It's a bullshit popularity contest. You might as well try to claim that the prom queen is the hottest girl in the school because she was voted prom queen. No, she's the most popular girl.

What is the MVP even awarded for? Is it the best player in the league/finals? Is it the best performer in the league/finals - the one who had the biggest impact on how the results turned out? Is it the guy who is a more crucial component to any success his team has than any other player was?

If you remove Jordan from his Chicago dynasty teams, they are still very much in the hunt for the title. Can you say that about LeBron's Cavs? If that's the case, who is a more valuable player? :thumbsup

:hat
 
Jun 14, 2012
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Watched the first two episodes. Very good so far but I can't help but feel Jordan is a bit of a prick. Got no problem with him having a go at his team mates as its obvious he's an out and out winner and the player everyone looks to on the team. He's the best and he doesn't shy away from that. But the clip where the French bloke asked him for an autograph was flat out rude. He's getting a microphone fitted for a talk show appearance and the French bloke asks for an autograph, Jorda looks at him right in the eye and then completely ignores him. What the fuck.
 
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Haggis

CHB World Championship People's Champion
May 16, 2013
38,384
15,151
Watched the first two episodes. Very good so far but I can't help but feel Jordan is a bit of a prick. Got no problem with him having a go at his team mates as its obvious he's an out and out winner and the player everyone looks to on the team. He's the best and he doesn't shy away from that. But the clip where the French bloke asked him for an autograph was flat out rude. He's getting a microphone fitted for a talk show appearance and the French bloke asks for an autograph, Jorda looks at him right in the eye and then completely ignores him. What the fuck.
Yeah apparently he's well known for being a total cunt. I can't remember who, but I remember hearing some black celebrity - a comedian or a musician - buying a Jordan game jersey at an auction and then running into Jordan at some event and telling him about it, and Jordan being a total cunt about it. That recollection probably doesn't do the story justice eh. :lol:

:hat
 
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Jul 29, 2012
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Watched the first two episodes. Very good so far but I can't help but feel Jordan is a bit of a prick. Got no problem with him having a go at his team mates as its obvious he's an out and out winner and the player everyone looks to on the team. He's the best and he doesn't shy away from that. But the clip where the French bloke asked him for an autograph was flat out rude. He's getting a microphone fitted for a talk show appearance and the French bloke asks for an autograph, Jorda looks at him right in the eye and then completely ignores him. What the fuck.
Yes he is a complete asshole. I think he is at least fairly aware of it
 
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