'Far Right' German MP 'Beaten half to death'

Jun 2, 2012
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Team Fury
This is what I find so depressing about the current political/social division and pigeon holing of people.

I know a lot of Jamie's views, and a fucking ton of them mirror mine. The differences in key issues between you, me, @JamieC and @Haggis are very few. I am almost certain that if the 4 of us were sat in a room and asked to give our views on gay rights, abortion, drug laws, equal opportunities in employment, racism, fair taxation, universal healthcare, military operations etc...

There would be variations and disagreements that seemed minor. There would be no clash of severely different worldviews. But it descends into simple pejoratives being attached and people dismissing other people entirely based off a knee jerk reading of one stance.
Wrt to the study what it termed as SJW viewpoints was rather generous, but ultimately acceptance of trans, Muslim, black, female execs etc has gone up despite views that there is a push back by the right in the culture wars

@Broxi is wrong if he thinks I stay in a bubble, one of my best mates is a right wing conservative, loads of my mates have different views, but none of my mates will ever be a Nazi, as you say if we all met we'd all have a laugh and there would be little material difference, there just seems to be a pile on on me for reminding people of 'Never Again'. It's crazy that in this decade especially there seems to be some drive to accept far right views as legitimate, whilst celebrating the fact they were violently dunked on in 1945 and other events like Cable Street, It's cognitive dissonance. Far right ideology will never do any good, That's been well established, it doesn't even pretend to trend towards utopia, why give it any air? There's also some weird thing going on where the far left and far right are equated whereas as one argues for absolute direct democracy and equality and the other argues in favour of supremacy. They are not equitable.

@Haggis if you think I think you're a Nazi you're crazy. You can absolutely stand for secularity, as long as that doesn't infringe on individuals freedoms to worship how they want or discriminate against said individuals then fine, nobody is negatively affected by that.
 

Haggis

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May 16, 2013
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Wrt to the study what it termed as SJW viewpoints was rather generous, but ultimately acceptance of trans, Muslim, black, female execs etc has gone up despite views that there is a push back by the right in the culture wars
You have to be a SJW to accept a black or female executive? :rofl

Not just a regular, everyday, standard white male?

@Broxi is wrong if he thinks I stay in a bubble, one of my best mates is a right wing conservative
How can we trust any of your sumups of people's political affiliations? I mean, I'm a climate change denier and market solution retard and this German politician is a literal Nazi, soooooo.....

loads of my mates have different views
Congratulations. You know that's just standard practice for people who don't live in an extremist bubble, right?

none of my mates will ever be a Nazi
This German politician won't ever be a Nazi either. Doesn't stop you hanging the tag on him though, does it.

and it's crazy that in this decade especially there seems to be some drive to accept far right views as legitimate,
"Far right views" such as not wanting millions and millions of uneducated immigrants whose cultures are incompatible with the most fundamental European social values, to set up medieval mini-states inside European cities?


@Haggis if you think I think you're a Nazi you're crazy. You can absolutely stand for secularity, as long as that doesn't infringe on individuals freedoms to worship how they want or discriminate against said individuals then fine, nobody is negatively affected by that.
Probably don't think I'm a climate-denying free market advocate either, do you? Didn't stop you from calling me that a few posts ago, did it.

:hat
 
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tommygun711

You don't have the capability for mayhem
Jun 4, 2013
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Nazis were democratically elected brain genius
Oh wait you're the same guy that told me there were nazis at the free speech rally in Boston.. so yeah you will call anyone a nazi that doesn't agree with you :lol:

carry on with your retarded comparisons

and just because a political party is anti immigration and so called "far right" does not equate them to the nazis in the 30s. Not even close. Such a brain dead comparison it's hardly even worth interacting with you on this. You are fine with political violence. That really says it all
 
Jun 4, 2012
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Wrt to the study what it termed as SJW viewpoints was rather generous, but ultimately acceptance of trans, Muslim, black, female execs etc has gone up despite views that there is a push back by the right in the culture wars
Ah okay, well good. :lol: That is just an increase in liberal, accepting mindsets and it's a fucking good thing.
@Broxi is wrong if he thinks I stay in a bubble, one of my best mates is a right wing conservative, loads of my mates have different views, but none of my mates will ever be a Nazi, as you say if we all met we'd all have a laugh and there would be little material difference, there just seems to be a pile on on me for reminding people of 'Never Again'. It's crazy that in this decade especially there seems to be some drive to accept far right views as legitimate, whilst celebrating the fact they were violently dunked on in 1945 and other events like Cable Street, It's cognitive dissonance. Far right ideology will never do any good, That's been well established, it doesn't even pretend to trend towards utopia, why give it any air? There's also some weird thing going on where the far left and far right are equated whereas as one argues for absolute direct democracy and equality and the other argues in favour of supremacy. They are not equitable.
The far left as it is now is not comparable, because it's not really very "far". Whereas the far right now is proper far right. But...if you mean would a far left as in communism be comparable? Well...yes, and history bears that out. I don't see either real Nazis or real communist dictators gaining any real traction despite concerns. I see more right wing politics around immigration gaining ground, in part due to a refusal of the centre to acknowledge that not everyone with concerns is a Nazi and that you can be worried about Islam growing without hating people with brown skin.

My issue is not with you saying Nazis are not a legitimate voice (I agree) it is with saying that this one guy in the AfD is akin to a Nazi and therefore smashing his skull in was reasonable. I might end up being proved wrong, but nothing I have read about him or the party makes me think he is anything more than the equivalent of a staunch UKIP figure, and while I don't like them, I don't think they are comparable to Hitler.
 
Likes: Dazl1212
Jul 23, 2013
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Looks like my comrade @JamieC has fallen down the trap and become an honoury member of the loony left :sad I hope not anyway, it doesn't whether you are left or right, anyone who is able to think critically and logically with an open mind needs to stick together these days and that means calling out all this SJW shite and the various issues the left has at the minute.

This discussion shouldn't have progressed any further without an explanation of thing guy being a Nazi and what that actually means, otherwise the arguments following are completely irrelevant.

It seems like just being far right is enough to be categorized as a Nazi which is a bit troubling to me as the Nazi doctrine shouldn't be associated with ideology in this way. Nazism has ethnic cleansing as a core principal, it's inherently evil and not comparable to simply being right wing. On the other hand, this is also why direct comparisons to communism are silly. There's nothing inherently evil about a communist ideology, it's just a flawed system that is open to abuse in some of the worst kind of ways, but there's clearly a bigger emphasis on Governance.

In short though, you can't go on about the danger of Nazism and regularly call someone a Nazi without actually explaining how that's the case. That matters because it's important to understand the criteria. Where is the line drawn, is the immigration stance, attitude towards religion? We need to know.
 

Jack

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Jul 29, 2012
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Fascist in country that had millions murdered in Holocaust gets punched by people who would have been on the right side of history if they'd done this in the 30s.

I know I'm glad fascism was stamped out in WW2 with violence and that heroic generation said 'Never Again', don't think everyone in this thread feels the same. Sad.
Is this politician, or the party, advocating genocide and the global rule of one race? If so, you just made a good point but if not, you're a disingenuous, mental coward or a scumbag.

By the way, unless you're going to admit you are a scumbag and will instead defend your idiocy, as a socialist supporter, surely you also come under the classification of people who deserve to be abused and assaulted in the street? After all, socialism was integral to the Nazi party. This wouldn't be my argument, by the way, but given the flimsy platform you want to preach from, are you happy to place yourself in the firing line when you swap "fascism" for "socialism"? I'm guessing not.

Personally, I don't believe you deserve to be attacked for being a socialist. Maybe for being an extremist sympathising, defending scumbag, yeah, but not a socialist and nor does this man deserve to be attacked for being a fascist, if he even is one because that term, like Nazi, is thrown around like confetti by the left. I think people have a right to be wrong and don't deserve to be attacked unless they're outright calling for violence. Maybe I'm old fashioned though.
 
Jul 23, 2013
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@JamieC What are your views on mainstream left wing politics today mate? We don't get to see your input much anymore.

Are you ok calling out uneducated nonsense like the gender pay gap and 'hate speech'? I imagine you have pretty strong principles on freedom of speech and expression given your political views that im familiar with.

Are you an Owen Jones or a Jonathon Pie?
 
Jun 4, 2012
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Looks like my comrade @JamieC has fallen down the trap and become an honoury member of the loony left :sad I hope not anyway, it doesn't whether you are left or right, anyone who is able to think critically and logically with an open mind needs to stick together these days and that means calling out all this SJW shite and the various issues the left has at the minute.

This discussion shouldn't have progressed any further without an explanation of thing guy being a Nazi and what that actually means, otherwise the arguments following are completely irrelevant.

It seems like just being far right is enough to be categorized as a Nazi which is a bit troubling to me as the Nazi doctrine shouldn't be associated with ideology in this way. Nazism has ethnic cleansing as a core principal, it's inherently evil and not comparable to simply being right wing. On the other hand, this is also why direct comparisons to communism are silly. There's nothing inherently evil about a communist ideology, it's just a flawed system that is open to abuse in some of the worst kind of ways, but there's clearly a bigger emphasis on Governance.

In short though, you can't go on about the danger of Nazism and regularly call someone a Nazi without actually explaining how that's the case. That matters because it's important to understand the criteria. Where is the line drawn, is the immigration stance, attitude towards religion? We need to know.
Agree with all of this bar the bit that communism is not inherently evil. Well...maybe I agree it is not "evil" but it is oppressive and wrong. Marx explicitly stated that initially, his changes "cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads...".

He lays out that it MUST be despotic in the beginning, so dictatorships founded on communism were not an accident. He also states that the the family as a unit must be abolished. Now, I think he was slightly misunderstood here, but we saw what happened when Pol Pot took this literally...he broke up families.

Anyone opposing was to have all of their personal property "confiscated" by the state.

It is tyrannical at its core.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm
 
Likes: Dazl1212
Jul 23, 2013
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Agree with all of this bar the bit that communism is not inherently evil. Well...maybe I agree it is not "evil" but it is oppressive and wrong. Marx explicitly stated that initially, his changes "cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads...".

He lays out that it MUST be despotic in the beginning, so dictatorships founded on communism were not an accident. He also states that the the family as a unit must be abolished. Now, I think he was slightly misunderstood here, but we saw what happened when Pol Pot took this literally...he broke up families.

Anyone opposing was to have all of their personal property "confiscated" by the state.

It is tyrannical at its core.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm
That's not really a disagreement though, the evil bit is important and not really comparable to simply being tyrannical in this example imo.

As bad as forcefully adjusting wealth and 'confiscating' possessions is, I can't directly equate that to an ideology is that is primarily focused around killing a particular species of human. That's they key driver behind the ideology.

I agree that it's oppressive and clearly wrong, but that doesn't mean it's the same as Nazism. You could take a lot from Marx and apply it in a positive way, there's no scope to do that with a Mein Kampf style Nazi ideology.
 
Likes: Strike
Jun 4, 2012
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That's not really a disagreement though, the evil bit is important and not really comparable to simply being tyrannical in this example imo.

As bad as forcefully adjusting wealth and 'confiscating' possessions is, I can't directly equate that to an ideology is that is primarily focused around killing a particular species of human. That's they key driver behind the ideology.

I agree that it's oppressive and clearly wrong, but that doesn't mean it's the same as Nazism. You could take a lot from Marx and apply it in a positive way, there's no scope to do that with a Mein Kampf style Nazi ideology.
Yeah, no disagreement there.
 
Jul 23, 2013
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Is there any communist country in history that anyone here would have wanted to be a citizen of?

I cant think of one I would.
@Strike already lives in one :lol:

I'd live there too, it's great.

That kind of proves my point. I can't envisage a Nazi regime that I would enjoy as much as communist VIetnam.
 

Dazl1212

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@Strike already lives in one :lol:

I'd live there too, it's great.

That kind of proves my point. I can't envisage a Nazi regime that I would enjoy as much as communist VIetnam.
He's a foreigner living there with his own money though, at least he was I think he's back in the UK now.

Would you enjoy being a normal Vietnamese citizen?
 
Jun 4, 2012
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@Strike already lives in one :lol:

I'd live there too, it's great.

That kind of proves my point. I can't envisage a Nazi regime that I would enjoy as much as communist VIetnam.
:lol:

I left Vietnam near the end of March actually mate. Communism like Vietnam's is just laughable, fucking McDonald's, KFC, adverts everywhere, and the people who have very little are all running food stands or selling shit, it's the most entrepreneurial, money driven society you could imagine. :lol:
 
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Jul 23, 2013
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He's a foreigner living there with his own money though, at least he was I think he's back in the UK now.

Would you enjoy being a normal Vietnamese citizen?
That's a bit of a daft question though, as I can only answer that from the perspective of someone who isn't from VIetnam. If I just imagine I was born in VIetnam I'd be a completely different person.

I connected with a guy over there who works in tourism at Ha Long and hes a perfectly happy guy with a good education, family and job.

Obviously it's not a preferable system at all, but there's clearly FAR more potential to live happily under a communist system than there is under a Nazi regime.

That would be like living under the Khmer in Cambodia.
 
Likes: Strike
Jul 23, 2013
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:lol:

I left Vietnam near the end of March actually mate. Communism like Vietnam's is just laughable, fucking McDonald's, KFC, adverts everywhere, and the people who have very little are all running food stands or selling shit, it's the most entrepreneurial, money driven society you could imagine. :lol:
Yep.

It's still a communist country by rule though which shows how much more scope there is to live freely and without violent prejudice if you get the right kind of Governnace which was my original point.

Genocide not being a core part of the ideology helps with that :lol:
 

Dazl1212

100% British Gammon.
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That's a bit of a daft question though, as I can only answer that from the perspective of someone who isn't from VIetnam. If I just imagine I was born in VIetnam I'd be a completely different person.

I connected with a guy over there who works in tourism at Ha Long and hes a perfectly happy guy with a good education, family and job.

Obviously it's not a preferable system at all, but there's clearly FAR more potential to live happily under a communist system than there is under a Nazi regime.

That would be like living under the Khmer in Cambodia.
Fair point I suppose.

The issue I have with communism, well one of them is the one party system. A cunt manages to get in power and you aren't getting him or her out.

Gotta go back to work now, freedom eh?