FBI’s college admissions fraud case against Felicity Huffman and many others exposed

steviebruno

CHB NYC Delegate
Jun 5, 2013
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New York City
it absolutely should be

a suburban black kid who has all the 'advantages' of a solid middle class upbringing shouldn't get precedent over some dirt poor white kid with better grades/test scores..............'poverty' is the root of the issue,not race............


what would it lead to?
People lying about their income...people with economic.advantages benefiting from affirmative action initiatives.
 

steviebruno

CHB NYC Delegate
Jun 5, 2013
12,754
3,645
New York City
it absolutely should be

a suburban black kid who has all the 'advantages' of a solid middle class upbringing shouldn't get precedent over some dirt poor white kid with better grades/test scores..............'poverty' is the root of the issue,not race............


what would it lead to?
I see affirmative action as self-containing in two ways:

1) When you give someone a quota to fill, they are only going to use it on the best, brightest minds available. A forum-dweller like me has never benefited from affirmative action and never would.

2) Once a forced quota is filled, a school is under no obligation to exceed that quota, so it actually becomes somewhat of a deterrent to accepting black applicants. Consider the Rooney Rule in football, for reference.

If affirmative action actually did what opponents fear, you wouldn't continue to see racial correlation with wage gaps.
 

SwollenGoat

Deicide
May 17, 2013
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I see affirmative action as self-containing in two ways:

1) When you give someone a quota to fill, they are only going to use it on the best, brightest minds available. A forum-dweller like me has never benefited from affirmative action and never would.

2) Once a forced quota is filled, a school is under no obligation to exceed that quota, so it actually becomes somewhat of a deterrent to accepting black applicants. Consider the Rooney Rule in football, for reference.

If affirmative action actually did what opponents fear, you wouldn't continue to see racial correlation with wage gaps.
are you saying universities TURN DOWN black applicants,because they are black,in favor of less qualified people of other races because AA exists?

Now,the NFL MAY be different as its a rather small club of super rich white folks,more or less..............MAYBE they make some sort of conscious decision to NOT hire or interview black coaches...............which,given the amount of money riding on WINNING would seem self defeating if a black coach were the best possible choice..........

And no,AA isn't going to guarantee some sort of parity in earnings,for example...........why would it? What it DOES do is give [disadvantaged] kids a CHANCE at something they would never otherwise get............

Maybe you could elaborate some? I dont really get your objection here..............
 

steviebruno

CHB NYC Delegate
Jun 5, 2013
12,754
3,645
New York City
are you saying universities TURN DOWN black applicants,because they are black,in favor of less qualified people of other races because AA exists?

Now,the NFL MAY be different as its a rather small club of super rich white folks,more or less..............MAYBE they make some sort of conscious decision to NOT hire or interview black coaches...............which,given the amount of money riding on WINNING would seem self defeating if a black coach were the best possible choice..........

And no,AA isn't going to guarantee some sort of parity in earnings,for example...........why would it? What it DOES do is give [disadvantaged] kids a CHANCE at something they would never otherwise get............

Maybe you could elaborate some? I dont really get your objection here..............
I'm saying that any institution that needs to be forced to accept a minority applicant will do the bare minimum in meeting their diversity requirements... or close to minimum. What that means is that when you start getting past the most elite candidates, the second tier candidates have no shot; the quota is already filled.

Affirmative action is a vehicle by which the most elite minority scholars get the opportunity to have a foot in the door... an opportunity to attain success on par with their more privileged counterparts. It exists only to overcome system abuses like legacy applicants and the outright scam in the news right now.

The idea of the average minority student taking the spot of a more qualified white kid has always been -by and large- a myth.
 

SwollenGoat

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I'm saying that any institution that needs to be forced to accept a minority applicant will do the bare minimum in meeting their diversity requirements... or close to minimum. What that means is that when you start getting past the most elite candidates, the second tier candidates have no shot; the quota is already filled.
Im not sure what the point here is

By definition the AA applicants are NOT the 'elite'

WHATEVER the 'quota' is based on,its to allow LESS QUALIFIED APPLICANTS in,at the expense of the non AA applicants who have higher scores.........


Affirmative action is a vehicle by which the most elite minority scholars get the opportunity to have a foot in the door... an opportunity to attain success on par with their more privileged counterparts. It exists only to overcome system abuses like legacy applicants and the outright scam in the news right now.

The idea of the average minority student taking the spot of a more qualified white kid has always been -by and large- a myth.
Wat?

If you get,for instance,points added to your SAT score BECUASE of AA,you are,by definition,going to take the spot of someone who ACTUALLY did better,no?

And why wouldnt 'only' the 'elite' of minority scholars be expected to get in?

Thats how the thing works

Those who are best qualified get in.............well,thats how its SUPPOSED to work,but,as the recent scandel shows,money buys anything............

Still no idea what your actual objections are..................
 

SwollenGoat

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I'm all for it if they can find a way to regulate it.
good

me too

personally,I dont think the issue is as bad as you believe................I mean the PROBLEMS with regulation or whatever...............

I dont think my daughter was accepted to the schools she was because she is 'white',at the expense of any 'minority' students.............she was accepted on the basis of her grades,scores and other achievements...........the process was,in fact,kinda faceless and numbers based............one might as well not apply to a school if you dont meet the minimum NUMBERS...........and I dont think 'race' is going to help,unless in reverse...............hell,asian students are suing places left and right because less qualified AA students are being accepted and they feel its discrimination...................and they are right............but,on the other hand,AA IS important to give the underprivileged a leg up where possible.............

ANyway,I think we more or less agree...................AA is important,it should be based on economic standing,not 'race' and nobody wants to see fraud.............yeah?
 

steviebruno

CHB NYC Delegate
Jun 5, 2013
12,754
3,645
New York City
Im not sure what the point here is

By definition the AA applicants are NOT the 'elite'

WHATEVER the 'quota' is based on,its to allow LESS QUALIFIED APPLICANTS in,at the expense of the non AA applicants who have higher scores.........



Wat?

If you get,for instance,points added to your SAT score BECUASE of AA,you are,by definition,going to take the spot of someone who ACTUALLY did better,no?

And why wouldnt 'only' the 'elite' of minority scholars be expected to get in?

Thats how the thing works

Those who are best qualified get in.............well,thats how its SUPPOSED to work,but,as the recent scandel shows,money buys anything............

Still no idea what your actual objections are..................
Affirmative action simply gives the benefit to exemplary minority candidates who would not even be considered under normal circumstances. A normal application and selection process would limit the amount of minority candidates. Correct.

But while that process could possibly limit the number of enrollments, it should not also place an invisible cap on it. Simply stated, a quota effectively places a ceiling on the number of applicants selected, as well as a floor, as racially biased institutions are not apt to go beyond the regulations imposed. Self-containing.

If I own a business and have to give my employees health insurance, even when I don't give a shyt about their well-being, do you think that I'm going to provide anything more than the minimum required? At some point, my own interests are invariably going to factor into the equation.

And so what are the interests of these institutions that allow pay for play, give preferential treatment to legacy applicants, and continually circumvent the affirmative action regulations placed upon them?
 
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SwollenGoat

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Affirmative action simply gives the benefit to exemplary minority candidates who would not even be considered under normal circumstances. A normal application and selection process would limit the amount of minority candidates. Correct.

But while that process could possibly limit the number of enrollments, it should not also place an invisible cap on it. Simply stated, a quota effectively places a ceiling on the number of applicants selected, as well as a floor, as racially biased institutions are not apt to go beyond the regulations imposed. Self-containing.

If I own a business and have to give my employees health insurance, even when I don't give a shyt about their well-being, do you think that I'm going to provide anything more than the minimum required? At some point, my own interests are invariably going to factor into the equation.

And so what are the interests of these institutions that allow pay for play, give preferential treatment to legacy applicants, and continually circumvent the affirmative action regulations placed upon them?
Well,firstly,you cant point at a small fail of the 'system' as it somehow not working methinks...........

Secondly,there is no 'cap' on admissions but,if AA gives some folks a leg up in the process when those AA slots are filled,only [theoretically] qualification is considered in the rest of the applications..............so its not the universities plan to exclude some folks Id say,its how the numbers shake out

why would I hire,or a university admit LESS qualified folks over MORE qualified folks OTHER than meeting,for example,an AA 'quota'? I dont get your objection here Stevie..............the nly 'cap' I can see is imposed by qualifications.............

[and no,Im not claiming 'racism' is dead..........or class war,for that matter............I just dont think 'racism' is even a minor factor in the university admissions process............its a 'problem' where ANY single possible example will be used to pretend its massive and out of control to the detriment of the ACTUAL problems recognition IMHO]
 

steviebruno

CHB NYC Delegate
Jun 5, 2013
12,754
3,645
New York City
Well,firstly,you cant point at a small fail of the 'system' as it somehow not working methinks...........

Secondly,there is no 'cap' on admissions but,if AA gives some folks a leg up in the process when those AA slots are filled,only [theoretically] qualification is considered in the rest of the applications..............so its not the universities plan to exclude some folks Id say,its how the numbers shake out

why would I hire,or a university admit LESS qualified folks over MORE qualified folks OTHER than meeting,for example,an AA 'quota'? I dont get your objection here Stevie..............the nly 'cap' I can see is imposed by qualifications.............

[and no,Im not claiming 'racism' is dead..........or class war,for that matter............I just dont think 'racism' is even a minor factor in the university admissions process............its a 'problem' where ANY single possible example will be used to pretend its massive and out of control to the detriment of the ACTUAL problems recognition IMHO]
I completely agree that SAT scores shouldn't be bumped (or lowered) based on race, but I also don't believe that it makes a whole lot of sense to wait until college to try and standardize students when access to equal educational opportunities had been denied all along. The test, logically speaking, would only serve to perpetuate the differences that had been present the entire academic lives of these applicants.

I don't pretend to know how to solve or even address this problem.
 
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SwollenGoat

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I completely agree that SAT scores shouldn't be bumped (or lowered) based on race, but I also don't believe that it makes a whole lot of sense to wait until college to try and standardize students when access to equal educational opportunities had been denied all along. The test, logically speaking, would only serve to perpetuate the differences that had been present the entire academic lives of these applicants.

I don't pretend to know how to solve or even address this problem.
I agree

The problem is deeper than AA at the university level and needs to be addressed from the lower levels..............
 
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Jun 4, 2013
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I saw this on the news all day this week. Seriously, it's so fucking dumb. Yeah, these are big named universities, but if you're a shitty student, no amount of education or big name will change that. News reporters were saying that some of these kids didn't even fucking care about school.

I guess it's the fucking name inflation. A shit student from Harvard is probably worth more than the best student from some bottom 100 university, somehow.

By the way, graduating from a top school sure as shit did fuckall for me. Getting my masters is what really tipped it for me. I actually learned a skill instead of dicking around, class after class. The fucking BS was absolutely useless. It's worth piss nowadays. Everyone has a fucking BS. You can spit and probably hit someone with a BS from a top 20 university.

Anyways, just a rant about this whole system. These people are fucking retarded.
 
Jun 10, 2013
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I honestly thought that throwing money at a well renowned US university was the usual way to be admitted. It completely blows my mind that it could be illegal.
What they did goes FAR BEYOND mere donations - they FALSIFIED documents regarding their children's academic and athletic "achievements." Heck, Loughlin even went so far as to create fake portfolios with photos of her children's heads photoshopped onto real athlete's bodies. :lol: (I'd still bang her, though)
 
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Slick Ric

Long limousines & jet airplanes
Apr 7, 2015
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What they did goes FAR BEYOND mere donations - they FALSIFIED documents regarding their children's academic and athletic "achievements." Heck, Loughlin even went so far as to create fake portfolios with photos of her children's heads photoshopped onto real athlete's bodies. :lol: (I'd still bang her, though)
... Now that’s funny.
 

Joe E

Proud Shitholer
Jul 29, 2012
16,460
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What about the FBI running interference for Clinton? As admitted to by Lisa Page.