Frank Warren - Fury bigger draw than Joshua

Wig

Jan 26, 2014
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agreed.
People underestimate how difficult it is to sell 90,000 tickets for a boxing event
Not so much that, it’s more every time you fill Wembley with 90,000 mug punters, 89,500 of them watch the big tellies all night then realise they could have had a better view at home for twenty quid or whatever

Hence next time you need to find ninety thousand new mugs as let’s face it you’d have to have suffered a major traumatic brain injury to choose to watch boxing at Wembley more than once

So the first few times it’s easy, soon the new mug punters dry up, word gets around on Facebook or however people communicate these days that boxing at stadia is for brain dead morons and eventually you’ve no one left to hawk a ticket to

I call it the law of diminishing returns
 
Reactions: ButeTheBeast
Jun 7, 2013
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Agreed - Wilder and his people have mentioned a couple of times AJ 'hiding in England'. So a natural Hearn play to find a low-risk ranked American, beat him in the US and then claim to have laid that issue to rest.
Then the fight will have to take place in the US if Wilder wins and rightly so.
 
Jun 3, 2012
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Then the fight will have to take place in the US if Wilder wins and rightly so.
Not sure which Wilder fight you're referring to, but sadly, I don't think Hearn troubles himself with 'right', or has any feeling that anything 'has' to happen. This is clearly the best fight for him to make, AJ really needs Wilder, but Hearn still plays it as though they have the high ground and Wilder is being unreasonable in expecting to share billing.

I think a fight with a rematch clause, with one in the UK, one in the US and a 50-50 split is fairest. Sure, AJ has more belts, but he has had plenty of softish fights to get there (and I'm an AJ fan), but what he and Wilder share is that their legacy and reputation are incomplete without beating the other. Wilder's record scans much better than AJ's to a casual, the US is just as big a fight centre as the UK. Facing Fury has given Wilder momentum and taken away the Hearn claims that he is scared of AJ and doesn't fight anyone threatening.

Would be quite funny if Hearn postures for a few more months, AJ beats Whyte again, then next Summer we get Fury-Wilder II and Fury wins. Immediately renders the Wilder fight less meaningful and Hearn will know that he could have jumped the queue and got that fight for all four belts. Fury wouldn't take their crap and is extremely well known and marketable and Hearn might realise that he missed his chance. Whereas AJ beating Wilder now (wherever it happens) would give them all the cards and make him v Fury a(n even more) massive event.
 

sosolid4u09

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Not sure which Wilder fight you're referring to, but sadly, I don't think Hearn troubles himself with 'right', or has any feeling that anything 'has' to happen. This is clearly the best fight for him to make, AJ really needs Wilder, but Hearn still plays it as though they have the high ground and Wilder is being unreasonable in expecting to share billing.

I think a fight with a rematch clause, with one in the UK, one in the US and a 50-50 split is fairest. Sure, AJ has more belts, but he has had plenty of softish fights to get there (and I'm an AJ fan), but what he and Wilder share is that their legacy and reputation are incomplete without beating the other. Wilder's record scans much better than AJ's to a casual, the US is just as big a fight centre as the UK. Facing Fury has given Wilder momentum and taken away the Hearn claims that he is scared of AJ and doesn't fight anyone threatening.

Would be quite funny if Hearn postures for a few more months, AJ beats Whyte again, then next Summer we get Fury-Wilder II and Fury wins. Immediately renders the Wilder fight less meaningful and Hearn will know that he could have jumped the queue and got that fight for all four belts. Fury wouldn't take their crap and is extremely well known and marketable and Hearn might realise that he missed his chance. Whereas AJ beating Wilder now (wherever it happens) would give them all the cards and make him v Fury a(n even more) massive event.
50/50 is not fair by any metric or any measure.

I want AJ to give him 50/50 just to make it happen. I want to see the fight. But it certainly isn't the "fair" split. if wilder insists on 50/50 and AJ doesn't give in, then the blame is on Wilder for the fight not happening. If AJ lowballs him with a 35% split then its AJ's fault. But we certainly can't hold him accountable for not making the fight purely because he won't give in on 50/50
 
Jun 3, 2012
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50/50 is not fair by any metric or any measure.

I want AJ to give him 50/50 just to make it happen. I want to see the fight. But it certainly isn't the "fair" split. if wilder insists on 50/50 and AJ doesn't give in, then the blame is on Wilder for the fight not happening. If AJ lowballs him with a 35% split then its AJ's fault. But we certainly can't hold him accountable for not making the fight purely because he won't give in on 50/50
In your opinion, but I can see how the Wilder side would think it fair. Holds a belt, fought Fury and (per the recorded result) retained the belt, had 40 fights, they know they're the biggest fight for AJ and the one he wants, they bring the US TV/fanbase, I can see how they talk themselves into 50-50, and in the market I don't have too much issue with it. I think 60-40 is more representative of the belts AJ brings, but he hasn't had many fights, has only really fought Klitschko (I don't think anyone outside of the UK hardcores really cares about Whyte), WIlder's lot know that AJ is considering Whyte II as his next opponent, so he has a pretty shallow pool of options. If you're saying that 65-35 would be a lowball then I guess you're thnking at least 60-40, so fundamentally we agree. I just think that Hearn should make it at 50-50 to get it done and unlock the future. They'd still make a shedload, they're confident of winning, and I can see how Wilder's crew can make their case for 50-50. If I were Wilder, seeing how AJ is struggling for future opponents, I'd fight a keep busy (he's always happy with those!), then Fury II and that takes you into 2020! AJ will be fighting Whyte III with Price on the undercard at that point, with Hearn hoping Pricey flattens someone with a haymaker so he can give us the Christmas 2020 PPV treat of AJ-Price. AJ needs this fight more than Wilder does, as Wilder is happy as he is and looks ready to fight anyone post-Fury, and talks a waaaaay better game than AJ. As time passes, AJ looks increasingly static and bumbling and outmanoeuvred, and is the one who seems to care about legacy and unification. So in context, he needs the fight more. His reputation will continue to go south if he carries on as he is. Hearn has done it to fighters before... just ask Kell Brook.

(But yes I agree, I'd like AJ to give him 50-50 just to get it done.)
 

sosolid4u09

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In your opinion, but I can see how the Wilder side would think it fair. Holds a belt, fought Fury and (per the recorded result) retained the belt, had 40 fights, they know they're the biggest fight for AJ and the one he wants, they bring the US TV/fanbase, I can see how they talk themselves into 50-50, and in the market I don't have too much issue with it. I think 60-40 is more representative of the belts AJ brings, but he hasn't had many fights, has only really fought Klitschko (I don't think anyone outside of the UK hardcores really cares about Whyte), WIlder's lot know that AJ is considering Whyte II as his next opponent, so he has a pretty shallow pool of options. If you're saying that 65-35 would be a lowball then I guess you're thnking at least 60-40, so fundamentally we agree. I just think that Hearn should make it at 50-50 to get it done and unlock the future. They'd still make a shedload, they're confident of winning, and I can see how Wilder's crew can make their case for 50-50. If I were Wilder, seeing how AJ is struggling for future opponents, I'd fight a keep busy (he's always happy with those!), then Fury II and that takes you into 2020! AJ will be fighting Whyte III with Price on the undercard at that point, with Hearn hoping Pricey flattens someone with a haymaker so he can give us the Christmas 2020 PPV treat of AJ-Price. AJ needs this fight more than Wilder does, as Wilder is happy as he is and looks ready to fight anyone post-Fury, and talks a waaaaay better game than AJ. As time passes, AJ looks increasingly static and bumbling and outmanoeuvred, and is the one who seems to care about legacy and unification. So in context, he needs the fight more. His reputation will continue to go south if he carries on as he is. Hearn has done it to fighters before... just ask Kell Brook.

(But yes I agree, I'd like AJ to give him 50-50 just to get it done.)
I agree with all of that, except i dont see how Wilders camp can make a case for 50/50. They don't really bring much US money to the table. But like you, I think Hearn should just offer 55/45 of even 50/50 just to make it happen. I wanna see the dam fight
 
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I agree with all of that, except i dont see how Wilders camp can make a case for 50/50. They don't really bring much US money to the table. But like you, I think Hearn should just offer 55/45 of even 50/50 just to make it happen. I wanna see the dam fight
Amen! But I think they have persuaded themselves that Ortiz-Fury is better than any two fights AJ has had, that 40 fights makes him somehow the senior operator, that the WBC belt is the best belt and that he has historically demonstrated more willingness to travel (fought in the UK, signed to fight in Russia) than AJ, so somehow the onus is on AJ to prove that he's a fighting man. Fury being willing to come to the US didn't help AJ there. Plus, of course, they think that the US is the centre of the sporting world (and, frankly, the non-sporting world), so the whole exchange started out with them thinking that the default setting for such a fight should be the US. But yes, I agree with you. If I had the money, I'd make up AJ's purse to the level he's happy with just to get it done. Genuine pick 'em.
 

sosolid4u09

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Amen! But I think they have persuaded themselves that Ortiz-Fury is better than any two fights AJ has had, that 40 fights makes him somehow the senior operator, that the WBC belt is the best belt and that he has historically demonstrated more willingness to travel (fought in the UK, signed to fight in Russia) than AJ, so somehow the onus is on AJ to prove that he's a fighting man. Fury being willing to come to the US didn't help AJ there. Plus, of course, they think that the US is the centre of the sporting world (and, frankly, the non-sporting world), so the whole exchange started out with them thinking that the default setting for such a fight should be the US. But yes, I agree with you. If I had the money, I'd make up AJ's purse to the level he's happy with just to get it done. Genuine pick 'em.
Yea good point.

I think Fury has really disrupted the status quo. All of a sudden AJ isn't the only golden goose in the division. All roads no longer lead to AJ. Wilder can fight Fury, then take a mandatory and nobody can really bat an eyelid. And if he does rematch Fury, nobody will moan at him for not fighting AJ. Aj on the other hand is left with few credible options unless he concedes a large portion of the pot to Fury or Wilder, who are getting all the credit for fighting each other.

Wilders team have played an absolute blinder and Matchroom overplayed their hand. They should have offered Wilder a fairer deal in the first place and taken his belt from him before Fury became relevant again. They really bollocksed that up. Now they HAVE to give away a much larger slice of the pie to keep Joshua relevant
 
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Yea good point.

I think Fury has really disrupted the status quo. All of a sudden AJ isn't the only golden goose in the division. All roads no longer lead to AJ. Wilder can fight Fury, then take a mandatory and nobody can really bat an eyelid. And if he does rematch Fury, nobody will moan at him for not fighting AJ. Aj on the other hand is left with few credible options unless he concedes a large portion of the pot to Fury or Wilder, who are getting all the credit for fighting each other.

Wilders team have played an absolute blinder and Matchroom overplayed their hand. They should have offered Wilder a fairer deal in the first place and taken his belt from him before Fury became relevant again. They really bollocksed that up. Now they HAVE to give away a much larger slice of the pie to keep Joshua relevant
Exactly - if Wilder fought Fury next, they'd be on for a trilogy however the second one ended. Between that and a mandatory for that belt it could be two years before AJ is in that mix if they each find him difficult to deal with. At that point he's over 30, with possibly having not had a top level fight in two or three years, and with Wilder maybe even retiring - if he beats Fury in the return (I know that that's a big if, but he has the power to reverse any fight), then Wilder won't need AJ's belts to call himself lineal champion, greatest of his generation and go off into the sunset (particularly if AJ walks onto a Whyte left hook in April..!). Wilder will be 35 in two years' time, after all. Hearn might look back on this period as his biggest missed opportunity.
 

sosolid4u09

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Exactly - if Wilder fought Fury next, they'd be on for a trilogy however the second one ended. Between that and a mandatory for that belt it could be two years before AJ is in that mix if they each find him difficult to deal with. At that point he's over 30, with possibly having not had a top level fight in two or three years, and with Wilder maybe even retiring - if he beats Fury in the return (I know that that's a big if, but he has the power to reverse any fight), then Wilder won't need AJ's belts to call himself lineal champion, greatest of his generation and go off into the sunset (particularly if AJ walks onto a Whyte left hook in April..!). Wilder will be 35 in two years' time, after all. Hearn might look back on this period as his biggest missed opportunity.
Thats a very extreme scenario but its definitely possible. it's happened before in boxing!

Also imagine Fury beats wilder next. Wilder might call it a day? Then fury really would be a bigger name than aj domestically and globally. Good luck negotiating that! Even if Wilder doesn't call it a day, there may well be a trilogy, as you said.
 
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Jun 10, 2016
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No chance that Fury is as big a draw as AJ but he has certainly closed the gap in the last few months. Fury's popularity has risen greatly and AJ's is falling. Frank is simply negotiating possible future splits and doing a good job as Tyson's promoter but very much doubt he believes a word of it himself. Perversely I think the draw helped Fury as it plays into his narrative of the underdog and gives him a huge money return fight against a man with a big punch but very limited boxing skills.
 

BluefaceHatch

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I've always much preferred Fury to AJ, but still, in the eyes of the majority AJ is still the bigger draw

However, people are less & less for AJ now, there's lots who are getting a bit sick of him
 
Jan 20, 2014
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I've always much preferred Fury to AJ, but still, in the eyes of the majority AJ is still the bigger draw

However, people are less & less for AJ now, there's lots who are getting a bit sick of him
If Fury Wilder 2 happened in the uk and Fury got the win he’ll surpass AJ in status and popularity. He’s already not far off, it’s only a matter of time before AJ becomes an after thought.
 
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BluefaceHatch

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If Fury Wilder 2 happened in the uk and Fury got the win he’ll surpass AJ in status and popularity. He’s already not far off, it’s only a matter of time before AJ becomes an after thought.
I agree mate. And I think Fury will beat Wilder in the rematch.

100%, AJs not doing himself any favours at all
 
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AJ fighting Whyte again in April (which I know might not happen) would likely be a bad move for the casual fanbase. I know that many on here like the fight (although I don't), but from a casual point of view it's just rematching a guy he already knocked out, while Fury and Wilder are involved in big events testing themselves against the best. AJ's damaging the brand, and will lose more money there than he does in his precious purse splits (I never heard a fighter I respected spend so much time talking about purse splits. Very few other top sportsmen query whether people are offering them enough money to perform at the top, that's cart before horse logic.)
 
Reactions: kingkodi
Jan 20, 2014
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AJ fighting Whyte again in April (which I know might not happen) would likely be a bad move for the casual fanbase. I know that many on here like the fight (although I don't), but from a casual point of view it's just rematching a guy he already knocked out, while Fury and Wilder are involved in big events testing themselves against the best. AJ's damaging the brand, and will lose more money there than he does in his precious purse splits (I never heard a fighter I respected spend so much time talking about purse splits. Very few other top sportsmen query whether people are offering them enough money to perform at the top, that's cart before horse logic.)
This is why I find him very hard to like and relate to, zero personality and money orientated. Fury is the man at the bar, the people’s champion. His story has been well documented and the comeback has been epic so far, all that’s missing is the green belt.
 
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