Fury agrees Wilder bigger puncher than Mike Tyson ,Rocky Marciano

Jan 22, 2020
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I think it's relevant to the debate.

Big punchers like Wlad and Tyson (Mike) all were far more well rounded boxers. Their overall power delivery system was better. Wlad could time his punches extremely well and pick and choose when to sit down and really throw the power. Catch opponents off guard with something they don't see coming and it all added to their natural power. Kind of like how Mayweather wasn't known to be a big puncher in his welterweight days but had the acccuracy and timing which allowed him to have enough power for guys to respect him.

Wilder just seems to swing for the fences and sometimes he lands sometimes he doesn't. But more often than not even if they see it coming or it's a poorly timed shot or lands in an odd place (like on Ortiz's forehead), they still go down once Wilder lands.
Are you unfamiliar with how Foreman used to swing his wrecking balls?

 
Jun 6, 2013
12,583
1,506
I think it's relevant to the debate.

Big punchers like Wlad and Tyson (Mike) all were far more well rounded boxers. Their overall power delivery system was better. Wlad could time his punches extremely well and pick and choose when to sit down and really throw the power. Catch opponents off guard with something they don't see coming and it all added to their natural power. Kind of like how Mayweather wasn't known to be a big puncher in his welterweight days but had the acccuracy and timing which allowed him to have enough power for guys to respect him.

Wilder just seems to swing for the fences and sometimes he lands sometimes he doesn't. But more often than not even if they see it coming or it's a poorly timed shot or lands in an odd place (like on Ortiz's forehead), they still go down once Wilder lands.
This is all true, and Wilder's pathetic offense vs Fury fight shows it in perfect illumination.

- But that's not the topic of discussion., We're talking about pure punch power. Several guys who sparred with both Wlad and Wilder have said that Wilder is by far the harder puncher. - And he should be, given his arm speed. Plus, despite his several glaring flaws, when he's not off-balance his punch technique is actually spot-on. His kinetic chain is textbook perfect, from his feet to his knuckles, including the follow through.
 

hazza

wasted chemist
Sep 2, 2013
5,543
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Broadbeach, QLD
tyson was asked once what his greatest asset was, and he said my elusiveness.

he said nothing about his punching power.

which makes sense, because the reason tyson was so dangerous is that he knew he couldn't get hit cleanly.

this is the 86 tyson i'm talking about, obviously.

he was just too fast and slipped punches too well.

that's what knocked guys out, the power itself was the final touch.
 
May 22, 2013
4,152
2,686
Australia
This is all true, and Wilder's pathetic offense vs Fury fight shows it in perfect illumination.

- But that's not the topic of discussion., We're talking about pure punch power. Several guys who sparred with both Wlad and Wilder have said that Wilder is by far the harder puncher. - And he should be, given his arm speed. Plus, despite his several glaring flaws, when he's not off-balance his punch technique is actually spot-on. His kinetic chain is textbook perfect, from his feet to his knuckles, including the follow through.
well in pure punch raw power.. I guess we'll never know where Wilder or Wlad stacks up in a historical context as we can't measure everyone's power accurately.

At best we can debate it and put together whatever evidence we can get from common opponents and who they knock out. Wlad, Wilder, Foreman, Tyson all at very lest belong in the conversation of the biggest heavyweight punchers.
 
Jun 4, 2013
7,799
922
This is all true, and Wilder's pathetic offense vs Fury fight shows it in perfect illumination.

- But that's not the topic of discussion., We're talking about pure punch power. Several guys who sparred with both Wlad and Wilder have said that Wilder is by far the harder puncher. - And he should be, given his arm speed. Plus, despite his several glaring flaws, when he's not off-balance his punch technique is actually spot-on. His kinetic chain is textbook perfect, from his feet to his knuckles, including the follow through.
Part of the reason why he falls off balance is because of his commitment to his punches, he’s always trying to punch through the target with all his might. Sort of like Marciano, except Wilder isn’t a 5’10, 180 pound unathletic guy.
 
Jun 4, 2013
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922
wilder isnt a 'far bigger puncher'
Of course he is. Tyson was freakishly fast and hit guys from unexpected angles, and still didn’t have guys out like Wilder. Tyson could box and set up his punches, Wilder can’t box for shit and still has guys hurt with glancing punches. Wilder is a far far bigger puncher than Tyson.
 
Sep 5, 2018
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Of course he is. Tyson was freakishly fast and hit guys from unexpected angles, and still didn’t have guys out like Wilder. Tyson could box and set up his punches, Wilder can’t box for shit and still has guys hurt with glancing punches. Wilder is a far far bigger puncher than Tyson.
I read you expect Wilder to stop Fury in the rematch. How many rounds do you think it will take him?
 

hazza

wasted chemist
Sep 2, 2013
5,543
1,517
Broadbeach, QLD
well in pure punch raw power.. I guess we'll never know where Wilder or Wlad stacks up in a historical context as we can't measure everyone's power accurately.

At best we can debate it and put together whatever evidence we can get from common opponents and who they knock out. Wlad, Wilder, Foreman, Tyson all at very lest belong in the conversation of the biggest heavyweight punchers.
just being a big puncher isn't enough though.

like golf, its not who has the longest drive, its about whose game is the best all round.

so yeah mike tyson had a sledgehammer punch, but it was his footwork and speed, slipping ability and ability to get inside that made him what he was in the 80s.

90s on, all he had was a big punch, and he was a 3rd tier hw from that point.

the minute his head movement was non existent, he started getting beat.

we know wilder has a big punch, but so far that seems about it.
 
May 22, 2013
4,152
2,686
Australia
just being a big puncher isn't enough though.

like golf, its not who has the longest drive, its about whose game is the best all round.

so yeah mike tyson had a sledgehammer punch, but it was his footwork and speed, slipping ability and ability to get inside that made him what he was in the 80s.

90s on, all he had was a big punch, and he was a 3rd tier hw from that point.

the minute his head movement was non existent, he started getting beat.

we know wilder has a big punch, but so far that seems about it.
That's fair enough.

But @Cableaddict said we were talking exclusively about raw power not overall effectiveness.

No denying Tyson is the overall better package. But if him and Wilder both lined up then threw everything they have into a some stationary device that measures power. I think there is enough evidence to say that Wilder very well could deliver the harder punch.
 
Jun 6, 2013
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Part of the reason why he falls off balance is because of his commitment to his punches, he’s always trying to punch through the target with all his might. Sort of like Marciano, except Wilder isn’t a 5’10, 180 pound unathletic guy.
That's a good point. Even a perfect punch gets you out of position when you miss. (It's also very tiring.)

it's also one of the reasons Fury was able to time him and survive.
 

hazza

wasted chemist
Sep 2, 2013
5,543
1,517
Broadbeach, QLD
That's fair enough.

But @Cableaddict said we were talking exclusively about raw power not overall effectiveness.

No denying Tyson is the overall better package. But if him and Wilder both lined up then threw everything they have into a some stationary device that measures power. I think there is enough evidence to say that Wilder very well could deliver the harder punch.
well both larry holmes and frank bruno said tyson is not the hardest puncher they've faced, but he is the sharpest.

so there were bigger hitters (not many) than tyson in his day.

but unless there is a way to get them to hit some sort of psi punching meter the only real comparison is what guys who've fought them say.

my problem with wilder is what he says about mike tyson.

he seems to think because he's bigger and possibly hits harder then he'd beat him.

he actually said i'd ko the hell out of tyson.

wilder is having himself on if he believes that :bart
 
Reactions: Super_Fly_Sam
May 22, 2013
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Australia
well both larry holmes and frank bruno said tyson is not the hardest puncher they've faced, but he is the sharpest.

so there were bigger hitters (not many) than tyson in his day.

but unless there is a way to get them to hit some sort of psi punching meter the only real comparison is what guys who've fought them say.

my problem with wilder is what he says about mike tyson.

he seems to think because he's bigger and possibly hits harder then he'd beat him.

he actually said i'd ko the hell out of tyson.

wilder is having himself on if he believes that :bart
Nothing I disagree with there.
That's the thing it's impossible to tell. But makes for an interesting enough debate.

Wilder without a doubt COULD knock out Tyson. He's got the punch to do so. But CAN he do it is another question.

It's stupid all this "I'm better than this past great" stuff in a head to head scenario is nonsense though. Wilder needs to shut the F up. Leave Tyson out of it and build his own legacy.
 

SwollenGoat

Deicide
May 17, 2013
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The House that Peterbilt
Of course he is. Tyson was freakishly fast and hit guys from unexpected angles, and still didn’t have guys out like Wilder. Tyson could box and set up his punches, Wilder can’t box for shit and still has guys hurt with glancing punches. Wilder is a far far bigger puncher than Tyson.
part of being a 'big puncher' is being able to hit people,cleanly and,often,quickly,with power

Tyson,whatever the relative STRENGTHS of the two,was the ';bigger puncher' BECAUSE of his 'freakish speed' and the rest.

I remember,as a kid,watching an early Tyson fight and the commentator,maybe Al Bernstein [?] said he had never HEARD anything like the impact of Tysons punches............compared the sound to a watermelon falling off a skyscraper
 
Jun 6, 2013
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He was fighting little men compared to today, there’s really not an argument for Foreman here
Plus, every other HW from Foreman's era said Earnie Shavers was the hardest puncher they ever faced.

So Shavers, Tua, Wlad, Wilder...
And some of the newer guys look crazy powerful: Martin Bakole Llunga, Trey Lipp, and (OMG) Ivan Dytchko.

I wouldn't wanna' piss off any of 'em.
 
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