Goodfellas or Casino

Which was the better Scorcese Movie?


  • Total voters
    50

Masters

Bone 4 Tuna
May 20, 2013
10,976
2,114
Vice City
I think Ginger would subscribe to all of the conditions you have just laid out, but I'm not convinced Ace would. If it was Ace's understanding that Ginger was merely a 'trophy wife' and that it was his obligation to give her stacks of cash, no questions asked, then that scene would have obviously played out very differently. I'm not suggesting Ace was merely a meek victim in all of this, he was incredibly naive and ultimately deserved everything that came his way for refusing to turn his back on such a toxic mess, but Ace was controlling because he knew he could not trust Ginger. If you want to demonstrate Ace's controlling tendencies, you don't present a scene where he is merely asking for why his wife has just asked for 25 thousand dollars. That's the logical response. Why do you want the money?
I think it perfectly illustrates his conniving and controlling nature. Asking why she wanted it was his way of saying no. He knew she couldn't and wouldn't justify wanting the 25 grand and even if she did he would have found an excuse not to give it to her.
She knew it was an utterly pointless endeavor to even attempt explain why she wanted it!!

It was Ace being a manipulative control freak while giving the ruse he's being fair and honest.

Just another example why I think the film is written and acted to perfection.
 

Masters

Bone 4 Tuna
May 20, 2013
10,976
2,114
Vice City
I find your framing of the relationship to be obscenely charitable to Ginger. You suggest Ginger was a victim by listing all of the controlling and dominant aspects of Ace's behaviour and yet you offer absolutely no historical context as to why he would act in such a way. Ginger was not merely superficial, entitled and narcissistic, she was unfaithful. She was a thief. She was a terrible mother and husband. Ace's actions were somewhat understandable given the circumstances if not altogether justifiable. Ace was a ridiculous human being for not throwing Ginger aside much much earlier than he did.

As for the acting on display, I don't think anyone is likely to question it. I'm certainly not. But Goodfellas is equally competent in that area and - I would argue - consistently more entertaining. It's admittedly been a few years since I've watched it though and this thread has provided me with the motivation to revisit it.
Rewatch Casino? It didn't leave a mark on me the first time I saw it , or even the second. Like most great movies , it crept onto my top 5 list over time. If there's any movie that rewards multiple viewings its Casino.
 
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Pedderrs

Starspawn
Jun 1, 2012
23,319
15,644
31
United Kingdom
I think it perfectly illustrates his conniving and controlling nature. Asking why she wanted it was his way of saying no. He knew she couldn't and wouldn't justify wanting the 25 grand and even if she did he would have found an excuse not to give it to her.
She knew it was an utterly pointless endeavor to even attempt explain why she wanted it!!

It was Ace being a manipulative control freak while giving the ruse he's being fair and honest.

Just another example why I think the film is written and acted to perfection.
Asking for 25 grand is a big deal. Even for Ace. You better have a good reason for wanting it otherwise you ain't getting it. Now that's not Ace being conniving or controlling, that's him being a rational person and not wanting to give away thousands of dollars to a pimp named Lester.

Ginger could not justify her need for the money because she knew that her reasoning was patently insane.

I'm pretty sure we can make a case for Casino without going to these depths.
 
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Masters

Bone 4 Tuna
May 20, 2013
10,976
2,114
Vice City
Asking for 25 grand is a big deal. Even for Ace. You better have a good reason for wanting it otherwise you ain't getting it. Now that's not Ace being conniving or controlling, that's him being a rational person and not wanting to give away thousands of dollars to a pimp named Lester.

Ginger could not justify her need for the money because she knew that her reasoning was patently insane.

I'm pretty sure we can make a case for Casino without going to these depths.
True I suppose ..Well noted.
 
May 17, 2013
11,088
9,494
Louisiana
I think it perfectly illustrates his conniving and controlling nature. Asking why she wanted it was his way of saying no. He knew she couldn't and wouldn't justify wanting the 25 grand and even if she did he would have found an excuse not to give it to her.
She knew it was an utterly pointless endeavor to even attempt explain why she wanted it!!

It was Ace being a manipulative control freak while giving the ruse he's being fair and honest.

Just another example why I think the film is written and acted to perfection.
Makes me wonder just how you'd react if your wife/girlfriend came to you and said "I need $25K" and refuse to give any reason for it and then copping a shitty attitude when you ask "Why?"
 
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Sittin Sonny

The Antifa Shuffle
Jun 10, 2013
6,256
5,511
A very good scene here showing just how controlling Ace was. Look at how he tries to present himself as being calm and easy going , but inside you can see he's as serious as a heart attack.
Amazing acting.

I love how each one is trying to subtly out-manipulate the other.


... at which point Ace, otherwise highly intelligent, should have known better.
Love can make fools of anyone. Feelings and intellect don't always overlap.

I think the fact that someone so savvy in a calculating/business sense could be taken in out of love/infatuation is part of what makes the movie so fascinating.
 
Aug 2, 2013
11,542
5,824
Just remember that Joe Pesci made a rap song based on his roles in Goodfellas and Casino. You're welcome if you didn't know.....

 
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Haggis

CHB World Championship People's Champion
May 16, 2013
42,088
18,980
I think Ginger would subscribe to all of the conditions you have just laid out, but I'm not convinced Ace would. If it was Ace's understanding that Ginger was merely a 'trophy wife' and that it was his obligation to give her stacks of cash, no questions asked, then that scene would have obviously played out very differently. I'm not suggesting Ace was merely a meek victim in all of this, he was incredibly naive and ultimately deserved everything that came his way for refusing to turn his back on such a toxic mess, but Ace was controlling because he knew he could not trust Ginger. If you want to demonstrate Ace's controlling tendencies, you don't present a scene where he is merely asking for why his wife has just asked for 25 thousand dollars. That's the logical response. Why do you want the money?
That scene was years into the relationship. At the start, he figured he could spoil her with all the material luxury that she'd spent her life chasing, and buy her love with that. Turns out he couldn't, and she was a hustler through and through. But by the time he finally figured it out, they were married with kids. So then he hated her, and turned to controlling and punishing her for defying him by not giving him what he wanted and demanded.

:hat
 
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Joe

Jun 3, 2012
9,183
3,209
Probably Goodfellas, but I honestly can't quite remember Wich of some famous scenes are from Wich movie...
 

Haggis

CHB World Championship People's Champion
May 16, 2013
42,088
18,980
Should have dropped this in here earlier. Anyone who is interested in the real story of Casino, this guy has one of the best YouTube channels going.


Half an hour long, very much worth it. First part is the background to the real story, then he moves onto what the movie got right and wrong. He doesn't shit on historical movies for stupid things, he recognises that it's a movie so multiple people will inevitably get combined into one character, timelines will get changed around etc. He only really gets upset at "someone in that position in that organisation at that time would never ever have reacted to this situation with this action" type stuff.

Anyway, well worth a watch.

:hat
 
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