Jaoquin Phoenix's Joker revealed

Beefcake

Disgruntled Mexican
May 21, 2013
3,938
808
That's true, prior to Ledger's portrayal we never got any insight into what made The Joker who he was in any of the Batman films or in the original TV series.

He was just a demented madman hellbent on committing crime.

Now we get to see the development of his character with this new film.
That's not quite true.

In 1989's Batman, Nicholson's Jack Napier was a ruthless coldblooded killer in the mob, and didn't go fucking crazy until after he was set up by the mob boss and was disfigured in a vat of chemicals in an encounter with Batman.

It's easy to shit on his portrayal these days, especially when one compares this Tim Burton-directed PG-13 movie with a comic book feel with the R-rated Nolan movie that focused more on being an action movie than bringing to life the characters from the comics. Nicholson's Joker was great, anyhow.

 

Masters

Bone 4 Tuna
May 20, 2013
10,720
1,915
Vice City
Haven’t seem the film yet but I agree with you on the critics. I remember some director saying that Rotten Tomatoes and the like are the ruination of films. I ignore most reviews meself unless they are hugely positive for the most part because the world is littered with cunts nowadays who will look for some type of racism/white privilege/sexism in films where there's no place for it. I hope this is a huge success and encourages more filmmakers to push the boat out.

It's actually funny in a way. Early Hollywood films were supposed to be heavily censored but its like the PC picks of the world want to revert back to a more extreme version of that where everybody is accounted for and absolutely nobody can be offended.
In their attempts to strike the film down they have only made it more powerful then they could ever have imagined. Its killing it at the box office which will no doubt torment all the begrudgers who can't handle the fact a straight white male lead film is getting so much plaudits.

Read this garbage.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/10/joker-joaquin-phoenix-trump-era

If its an incell movie , wouldn't that make Todd Phillips the biggest incell on earth , since he co-wrote and made the film.
 

Masters

Bone 4 Tuna
May 20, 2013
10,720
1,915
Vice City
Since I saw the movie 2 days ago my appreciation for it has risen greatly. This is a movie that will live in your conscious long after you leave the theater and I believe it will be even better on repeat viewings. It really does deserve all the praise its receiving.

Good review by doomcock!

 
May 24, 2013
2,155
498
It's easy to shit on his portrayal these days, especially when one compares this Tim Burton-directed PG-13 movie with a comic book feel with the R-rated Nolan movie that focused more on being an action movie than bringing to life the characters from the comics. Nicholson's Joker was great, anyhow.
The Dark Knight was PG-13

Ledger created a character, and performed as though he were someone else. Nicholson is a capable actor, but he did not become someone else to play this role. Nicholson was himself in make-up.
 

Beefcake

Disgruntled Mexican
May 21, 2013
3,938
808
The Dark Knight was PG-13

Ledger created a character, and performed as though he were someone else. Nicholson is a capable actor, but he did not become someone else to play this role. Nicholson was himself in make-up.
I disagree. Jack Nicholson portrayed both an ice-cold killer and a comic-bookish insane homicidal clown. That's a job well done in my book. You could make the argument that both personas were too similar to previous roles in other movies, but claiming he half-assed it and acted like his normal self is bullshit.

Furthermore, which version of the Joker did Ledger become? Great performance, sure, but it sure as fuck wasn't any version of the character most people are familiar with.

I'm shocked it's not rated R, and apparently so is the Dark Knight's cinematographer. The violence was on another level than Batman's.

Movie ratings have become more lenient since the early 90s

Dark Knight cinematographer shocked the movie wasn't rated R
 
May 24, 2013
2,155
498
I disagree. Jack Nicholson portrayed both an ice-cold killer and a comic-bookish insane homicidal clown. That's a job well done in my book. You could make the argument that both personas were too similar to previous roles in other movies, but claiming he half-assed it and acted like his normal self is bullshit.

Furthermore, which version of the Joker did Ledger become? Great performance, sure, but it sure as fuck wasn't any version of the character most people are familiar with.

I'm shocked it's not rated R, and apparently so is the Dark Knight's cinematographer. The violence was on another level than Batman's.
I didn't say Nicholson "half-assed it." I said he didn't create a character, and act unlike himself. Nicholson did act/deliver lines in a way that's different from his other performances. Billy Bob Thornton created a character in Sling Blade. That doesn't mean Thornton half-asses it when he acts more like his typical self in Monster's Ball.

I don't always prefer it when an actor creates a different character. I really like Anthony Hopkins' as Hannibal Lecter, and believe he creates a character that behaves differently from himself. Mads Mikkelsen's Lecter doesn't really act all that differently than Mikkelsen in any other role. I prefer Mads' Lecter, as I find him more formidable physically. Both versions of Lecter seem brilliant, but Mikkelsen' feels more capable.
 

Beefcake

Disgruntled Mexican
May 21, 2013
3,938
808
I didn't say Nicholson "half-assed it." I said he didn't create a character, and act unlike himself. Nicholson did act/deliver lines in a way that's different from his other performances. Billy Bob Thornton created a character in Sling Blade. That doesn't mean Thornton half-asses it when he acts more like his typical self in Monster's Ball.

I don't always prefer it when an actor creates a different character. I really like Anthony Hopkins' as Hannibal Lecter, and believe he creates a character that behaves differently from himself. Mads Mikkelsen's Lecter doesn't really act all that differently than Mikkelsen in any other role. I prefer Mads' Lecter, as I find him more formidable physically. Both versions of Lecter seem brilliant, but Mikkelsen' feels more capable.
Fair point. The "half-assed" bit wasn't attributed to your post. I think it might have been Haggis who described Nicholson's Joker performance as such.
 
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Jack

P4P Star
Jul 29, 2012
8,091
1,903
Haven’t seem the film yet but I agree with you on the critics. I remember some director saying that Rotten Tomatoes and the like are the ruination of films. I ignore most reviews meself unless they are hugely positive for the most part because the world is littered with cunts nowadays who will look for some type of racism/white privilege/sexism in films where there's no place for it. I hope this is a huge success and encourages more filmmakers to push the boat out.
I think the problem is that people reviewing films aren't just judging the acting, the plot, the cinematography etc. any more but instead, they're looking through a lens of what the film represents. Do women get to look strong? Is there a mixed race cast? Is the storyline in line with progressive values? When you look back at some of the best films over the last century, you couldn't imagine a majority of them being made how they were back then, they'd have to have an angle about them that suits the modern status quo.

Unfortunately though, most people just want to watch a film without these things being obvious. I don't think anyone is against equality in cinema but there's still a room for chauvinism, bigotry and exclusivity without it being detrimental, but I think the industries are scared of edginess. You only have to look at the recent Dave Chapelle special to see how far off critics are from the rest of the public, and it's not an issue of comedy, it's in TV shows and films too.

Kate Winslet's character in Extras was satire but it wasn't wrong. Hollywood love a victim story, they love to be seen as defending a cause and promote that above anything else. A shit film about a gay immigrant is going to do better in reviews than a better film that has a neutral story.
 
May 21, 2013
11,127
4,485
nyc
Yeah I saw it this weekend too - great stuff

Not sure how they did it but they really managed to capture the pre-Giuliani grittiness of a decaying late 70s NYC spot on.

A lot of little details in the times square scenes fer sure