RBR!!! Keith Thurman (WBA) vs. Manny Pacquaio - July 20th 2019

Thurman vs. Pacquaio Winner and How?

  • Keith Thurman Stoppage

    Votes: 3 9.7%
  • Keith Thurman Decision

    Votes: 12 38.7%
  • Manny Pacquaio Decision

    Votes: 7 22.6%
  • Manny Pacquaio Stoppage

    Votes: 9 29.0%

  • Total voters
    31
  • Poll closed .

steviebruno

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Spence hasn't earned a shot at Keith Thurman. Or Pacquiao. He was calling for a fight with the ATG Manny Pacquiao, but what sense did that fight make lol? Why him over the rest of the WWs? He's only beaten a bunch of Contenders, Brook, and Garcia. Only won one belt. Just had his first title defense :lol:. He's the most unproven of all top WWs and had a title defense against a damn Lighweight. Him fighting Thurman next would be a shortcut and easy road to the lineal champ. How is he going to fight Thurman without any interest or common opponent? :lol:

People don't want to see him fight Thurman, they just want to see him fight because he stops people.

You can't argue against the business and logical side of prizefighting. Thurman v Spence makes zero sense at this point.

Thurman v Pacman, Spence v Porter, and Garcia v Garcia are far from second rate fights. They are all in their prime besides Pacman :lol:. It's as high level as you can get in the division. They are necessary in order to see who is the best.
Ridiculous. Spence is a titleholder.and regarded by just about everyone as the top welter in the world. He has done far better than Thurman when they have had common opponents, and Keith honestly hasn't done shyt for two years... except duck Errol Spence, go on vacation, and nearly get ko'd by bums. Spence has beaten the Brook, who beat the best name on Thurman's resume.

This isn't 2017 and Keith ain't the man no more. Doesn't talk like a fighter, doesn't scrap like one anymore, and was already physically fragile to begin with. He's gonna have to prove himself all over again, and instead he's sitting around like he'd been on top for 10 years like Floyd or something. Dude ain't hungry any more.

And you're talking like these guys are 25 years old or something. All of them are pushing 30 and I don't want to see the fight when they're past it. Hell, Thurman probably already is.

He's really just a stepping stone until we can get Spence/Crawford, tbh. No one is feeling Keith like that anymore. All the buzz is coming from Manny Pacquiao. Keith killed his own hype by being a punk bytch.
 
Jul 15, 2012
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Ridiculous. Spence is a titleholder.and regarded by just about everyone as the top welter in the world. He has done far better than Thurman when they have had common opponents, and Keith honestly hasn't done shyt for two years... except duck Errol Spence, go on vacation, and nearly get ko'd by bums. Spence has beaten the Brook, who beat the best name on Thurman's resume.

This isn't 2017 and Keith ain't the man no more. Doesn't talk like a fighter, doesn't scrap like one anymore, and was already physically fragile to begin with. He's gonna have to prove himself all over again, and instead he's sitting around like he'd been on top for 10 years like Floyd or something. Dude ain't hungry any more.



He's really just a stepping stone until we can get Spence/Crawford, tbh. No one is feeling Keith like that anymore. All the buzz is coming from Manny Pacquiao. Keith killed his own hype by being a punk bytch.

You are just a fanboy :deal

Thurman is more proven than Spence we all know this. Several title defenses and two major belts to Errol's single belt and title defense :deal. You seem to want Errol to fight Thurman, but not Porter who has the WBC? I don't get it. Thurman already beat Porter and Garcia it only makes sense that Spence at least beat one of them so the casuals can garner interest. That's how big fights are made. That's 90% of the people buying PPVs. It's also what Thurman did, win two belts. You just don't make a fight with zero call for it. If Errol is as good as you hope, he should win, but the truth is he is still very raw. I expected him to stop Garcia with the way the fight was going, but he's not as developed or sophisticated as I thought he was. Couldn't put it together so he got some rounds in.

Why do you think Spence is in negotiations with Porter? Because that is how you set up a fight with Keith Thurman! You can't say he is more deserving than Shawn Porter who is a two time champ and had a close fight with Thurman. You can't justify a Thurman fight in this WW picture with only one belt, one title defense, and unanswered questions. Neither can I for Shawn Porter which is why they are fighting each other :deal. Do you think PBC is wrong to setup a unification between Porter v Spence? A fight with Thurman isn't justified there isn't a single reason why he should jump the queue.

And you're talking like these guys are 25 years old or something. All of them are pushing 30 and I don't want to see the fight when they're past it. Hell, Thurman probably already is.
What fight?

There are no fights at 147 besides Porter v Spence and Garcia v Garcia. PBC Welterweights, former champions and champions, must fight each other before fighting Crawford.
 
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I like Spence, but he needs all the Championship experience he can get before Crawford because TC will give him many different looks. He is not ready and Crawford would outbox him if they fought next.

If he does get through the other PBC WW Champions he will be twice as good as he is now and likely won't receive much damage if at all. But, he definitely needs the rounds.
 
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steviebruno

CHB NYC Delegate
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I like Spence, but he needs all the Championship experience he can get before Crawford because TC will give him many different looks. He is not ready and Crawford would outbox him if they fought next.

If he does get through the other PBC WW Champions he will be twice as good as he is now and likely won't receive much damage if at all. But, he definitely needs the rounds.
Nah, fukk that. If he isn't ready, let him take his L with pride. He's not asking for more experience, he's asking for the opportunity to shatter Keith's glass ribcage, and he's been asking for three years now.

You can keep making excuses for Keith Thurman all you want, but it does not chance the reality of a man who lost two titles because he was afraid to defend them.
 

steviebruno

CHB NYC Delegate
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In your opinion he is number 1

In reality he has not fought any of the top welterweights
What was Kell Brook? And check any credentialed rating at Errol Spence will be ahead of Keith Thurman. It isn't just my opinion, it is the opinion of the entire boxing world.

And you can't duck a fight against someone, then turn around and say they don't have quality opposition on their record. How does that make sense?
 
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What was Kell Brook? And check any credentialed rating at Errol Spence will be ahead of Keith Thurman. It isn't just my opinion, it is the opinion of the entire boxing world.

And you can't duck a fight against someone, then turn around and say they don't have quality opposition on their record. How does that make sense?

Kell Brook was a belt holder, who hadn't fought a good welterweight since 2014, and was coming off a bad beating to GGG. And Kell Brook is not a top WW in 2019. You become the best by beating the best, not by sparring rumours and you're gym buddies telling everyone you're the best. Spence might be the best, but he is not the man at the weight until he beats the top guys, that is how sport works
 
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steviebruno

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Kell Brook was a belt holder, who hadn't fought a good welterweight since 2014, and was coming off a bad beating to GGG. And Kell Brook is not a top WW in 2019. You become the best by beating the best, not by sparring rumours and you're gym buddies telling everyone you're the best. Spence might be the best, but he is not the man at the weight until he beats the top guys, that is how sport works
Coulda sworn he beat Porter, who is the best name on Thurman's resume. And at least Spence stopped him, instead of running around in the ring like Keith has done since he got those belts.

If he's the best, he's the man. HE's the one they want to face Crawford. He's the one they're looking to match up with the biggest names in the sport... the one Canelo wants to offer 20 million dollars to.

It's his time now. Keith squandered his.
 
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Nah, fukk that. If he isn't ready, let him take his L with pride. He's not asking for more experience, he's asking for the opportunity to shatter Keith's glass ribcage, and he's been asking for three years now.
Not going to happen. PBC will keep all the money in house and let their WWs unify and also profit from a few PPVs. Then when they have all fought each other, the best PBC fighter will fight Crawford.

You can keep making excuses for Keith Thurman all you want, but it does not chance the reality of a man who lost two titles because he was afraid to defend them.
I'm not making excuses I'm trying to explain this shit to you. PBC management would tell you the same way.

He gave up the belt because he was coming off shoulder surgery and you don't fight someone as good as Spence coming off that kinda surgery. You know how good Spence is. If Thurman we're your fighter you wouldn't advise him to fight Spence coming off surgery.

What was Kell Brook?
Kell Brook was GGG's leftovers.

And check any credentialed rating at Errol Spence will be ahead of Keith Thurman. It isn't just my opinion, it is the opinion of the entire boxing world.

And you can't duck a fight against someone, then turn around and say they don't have quality opposition on their record. How does that make sense?
Those rankings don't mean shit Errol hasn't any fought any of the top 5 WWs. They truly don't.

All it would take would be for Spence to have a bad night (but still win) and Crawford to have a really good night and The Ring and ESPN would remove Errol as #1.
 
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Coulda sworn he beat Porter, who is the best name on Thurman's resume. And at least Spence stopped him, instead of running around in the ring like Keith has done since he got those belts.

If he's the best, he's the man. HE's the one they want to face Crawford. He's the one they're looking to match up with the biggest names in the sport... the one Canelo wants to offer 20 million dollars to.

It's his time now. Keith squandered his.
Canelo wants to fight Spence because he is raw as fuck and will be a mother fucker someday :deal. Errol Spence hasn't reached his prime yet. Canelo has a smart team that's why they are calling the man out. He's not ready for Crawford imo he will get outboxed if they fought tomorrow. PBC knows this and time is on his side because Spence has to develop. Fighting Shawn Porter is only going to make him better. He'll be better having gone the distance with Garcia too. I just hope he doesn't stay in the division too long and one night losses largely in part because the weight cut is too much.
 
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steviebruno

CHB NYC Delegate
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Not going to happen. PBC will keep all the money in house and let their WWs unify and also profit from a few PPVs. Then when they have all fought each other, the best PBC fighter will fight Crawford.



I'm not making excuses I'm trying to explain this shit to you. PBC management would tell you the same way.

He gave up the belt because he was coming off shoulder surgery and you don't fight someone as good as Spence coming off that kinda surgery. You know how good Spence is. If Thurman we're your fighter you wouldn't advise him to fight Spence coming off surgery.



Kell Brook was GGG's leftovers.



Those rankings don't mean shit Errol hasn't any fought any of the top 5 WWs. They truly don't.

All it would take would be for Spence to have a bad night (but still win) and Crawford to have a really good night and The Ring and ESPN would remove Errol as #1.
Keep pretending that Kell Brook wasn't a top five welterweight when Spence fought him. Keep pretending that Danny Garcia has earned his status as a top five welterweight based off of losses to Thurman and Porter. Keep pretending that

Keith Thurman has sought every opportunity to delay a fight with Spence. First it was, 'you're just a prospect, come back when you win a title', then it was 'I have two titles, you only have one', next it was, 'I'm injured, but not too injured to fight Danny Garcia', and now it's, 'fight Porter first, and then MAYBE we can fight in 2020'.

I get what PBC is doing, but the fighter formerly known as One Time has been a very wilfull partipicant. Of course he would have no problem holding on to his belts longer than he should have them, but he just isn't the guy that used to say "I got an 0, I ain't afraid to let it go".

Not anymore.
 
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I can't predict all the fights, but here is what I see happening over the next year and a half...

1) Spence fights Porter and beats him.

2) Danny Garcia beats Mikey Garcia.

3) Winner of Pacman v Thurman fights a contender or two. No real threats, but stays active enjoying that lineal champion luxury.

3) Errol Spence v Danny Garcia on PBC PPV.

4) Winner of Spence v Garcia fights Pacman or Thurman.

5) In the meantime Crawford fights who Top Rank can provide then finally fights the last man standing from the PBC Welterweights.
 

steviebruno

CHB NYC Delegate
Jun 5, 2013
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New York City
Canelo wants to fight Spence because he is raw as fuck and will be a mother fucker someday :deal. Errol Spence hasn't reached his prime yet. Canelo has a smart team that's why they are calling the man out. He's not ready for Crawford imo he will get outboxed if they fought tomorrow. PBC knows this and time is on his side because Spence has to develop. Fighting Shawn Porter is only going to make him better. He'll be better having gone the distance with Garcia too. I just hope he doesn't stay in the division too long and one night losses largely in part because the weight cut is too much.
Spence is a 29 year old, pedigreed and polished Olympian. There is nothing raw about him. He is in his prime RIGHT NOW.

I've seen Crawford at welterweight. He gets credit for being a master boxer because he bounces around on his toes and switches to southpaw occasionally, but Errol's punches are much quicker and tighter, particularly in the pocket, and Terrence has been known to get sloppy and eat big shots from time to time.

Even if you thought Crawford to win, would you rather see the fight now, or when he's 35? Why should I care who's the favorite?

The latter of what you daid is probably what Keith Thurman is waiting for. He would love for Spence to outgrow the division, but he's probably already wasted his own prime waiting for it to happen.
 
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Coulda sworn he beat Porter, who is the best name on Thurman's resume. And at least Spence stopped him, instead of running around in the ring like Keith has done since he got those belts.

If he's the best, he's the man. HE's the one they want to face Crawford. He's the one they're looking to match up with the biggest names in the sport... the one Canelo wants to offer 20 million dollars to.

It's his time now. Keith squandered his.

He beat a young Porter who was inexperienced at world championship level, not the Porter of today who is an accomplished champion. But Brook beat Porter in 2014, and then defended that title over 2.5 years against Jo Jo Dan, Bizier and Frankie Gavin, his WW title reign was poor, in that same time Thurman beat Guerrero, Collazo, Porter and Garcia, he was the man at 147, not Kell Brook. Not to mention by the time he fought him, Brook was coming off a bad loss to GGG and draining down two weight divisions, and even then, he gave Spence all he could handle and was winning until his eye injury around round 8 or 9.

On the current WW scene, Spence hasn't beat any of the top guys, this is a fact. He is a really good fighter, maybe the best at the weight, but until he proves it in the ring, the hype is all way over the top, and if Canelo is offering 20 mil why isnt Spence fighting him??? If he is as good as his fans make out Canelo should be an easy nights work for him
 
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steviebruno

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He beat a young Porter who was inexperienced at world championship level, not the Porter of today who is an accomplished champion. But Brook beat Porter in 2014, and then defended that title over 2.5 years against Jo Jo Dan, Bizier and Frankie Gavin, his WW title reign was poor, in that same time Thurman beat Guerrero, Collazo, Porter and Garcia, he was the man at 147, not Kell Brook. Not to mention by the time he fought him, Brook was coming off a bad loss to GGG and draining down two weight divisions, and even then, he gave Spence all he could handle and was winning until his eye injury around round 8 or 9.

On the current WW scene, Spence hasn't beat any of the top guys, this is a fact. He is a really good fighter, maybe the best at the weight, but until he proves it in the ring, the hype is all way over the top, and if Canelo is offering 20 mil why isnt Spence fighting him??? If he is as good as his fans make out Canelo should be an easy nights work for him
Guerrero. LOL
Collazo. LOL

Porter, who lost to Kell Brook. LOL

Dany Garcia, who's literally done nothing at welterweight to this day. LOL

I agree that Keith Thurman was the man, but that was mostly by default. Look at his performances in those fights. Not particularly dominant against Guerrero, hurt by Collazo, ran from Porter in the championship rounds of a close fight, and then ran from a Danny Garcia who was moving up in weight.

He wasn't a dominant champ to begin with.

Spence has unfinished business at 147, and Canelo is probably the hardest fight that he can make for himself. If Canelo is willing to come down to 154, he should take it.Errol has no business at 160 at this point, though, because he'll never get back down to welter.
 
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Keep pretending that Kell Brook wasn't a top five welterweight when Spence fought him. Keep pretending that Danny Garcia has earned his status as a top five welterweight based off of losses to Thurman and Porter. Keep pretending that

Keith Thurman has sought every opportunity to delay a fight with Spence. First it was, 'you're just a prospect, come back when you win a title', then it was 'I have two titles, you only have one', next it was, 'I'm injured, but not too injured to fight Danny Garcia', and now it's, 'fight Porter first, and then MAYBE we can fight in 2020'.

I get what PBC is doing, but the fighter formerly known as One Time has been a very wilfull partipicant. Of course he would have no problem holding on to his belts longer than he should have them, but he just isn't the guy that used to say "I got an 0, I ain't afraid to let it go".

Not anymore.
Kell was a top WW I'll give you that.

We all rank our fighters differently and fact is Thurman was the last lineal, unified Champ. I'm not saying he is the best because I don't know, I just rank him #1 because he's the lineal champ. Based off their most recent victories I do agree that Spence would probably beat this version of Thurman, but that doesn't mean it's the fight to make or that Thurman can't return to form. Pacman is an ATG his title shot is more important and justified than Errol Spence'. He's paid his dues and Errol hasn't imo.

IMHO I can see Danny Garcia being Errol Spence's first big test. He's very intelligent and reads his opponent early on (similar to Crawford). If they fought Errol will get caught with at least one clean hook that he doesn't see coming. That's all it takes with Garcia, just one. That the fight I want to see I want Errol to fight someone dangerous like himself. Like I said time is on Errol's side.
 

steviebruno

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Kell was a top WW I'll give you that.

We all rank our fighters differently and fact is Thurman was the last lineal, unified Champ. I'm not saying he is the best because I don't know, I just rank him #1 because he's the lineal champ. Based off their most recent victories I do agree that Spence would probably beat this version of Thurman, but that doesn't mean it's the fight to make or that Thurman can't return to form. Pacman is an ATG his title shot is more important and justified than Errol Spence'. He's paid his dues and Errol hasn't imo.

IMHO I can see Danny Garcia being Errol Spence's first big test. He's very intelligent and reads his opponent early on (similar to Crawford). If they fought Errol will get caught with at least one clean hook that he doesn't see coming. That's all it takes with Garcia, just one. That the fight I want to see I want Errol to fight someone dangerous like himself. Like I said time is on Errol's side.
I tend to give more credence to a unified champ if they were the one's to go out, put in the work, and unify the titles themselves. Those titles were unified by Floyd Mayweather, then vacated. Keith Thurman merely went out there and collected the scraps, and I'd honestly need to do a quick search to see who he beat for his first title. Errol Spence offered him a unique opportunity to put in the work of unifying the titles AND shutting down the biggest challenge to his dominion, and Keith simply balked and hid behind the politics of the sport.

I want to see the best fight right away. None of these dudes are spring chickens anymore. Can you imagine if Ray Leonard and Tommy Hearns waited until they were 32-35 years old to fight each other.

Danny Garcia has done absolutely nothing at welter to establish himself as some sort of roadblock. I'd rather see him in with Mikey Garcia, tbh.
 
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Spence is a 29 year old, pedigreed and polished Olympian. There is nothing raw about him. He is in his prime RIGHT NOW.

I've seen Crawford at welterweight. He gets credit for being a master boxer because he bounces around on his toes and switches to southpaw occasionally, but Errol's punches are much quicker and tighter, particularly in the pocket, and Terrence has been known to get sloppy and eat big shots from time to time.

Even if you thought Crawford to win, would you rather see the fight now, or when he's 35? Why should I care who's the favorite?

The latter of what you daid is probably what Keith Thurman is waiting for. He would love for Spence to outgrow the division, but he's probably already wasted his own prime waiting for it to happen.
We can agree to disagree, but I really don't think he is in his prime. His physical prime, yes, but the fight IQ is not there. He's only going to get better, but I worry about Errol getting too arrogant he seems quite arrogant in interviews. I just want him to stay discipline. His trainer knows what he has.

I'd like to see Crawford fight at least one of them now, but PBC won't do that. Their is good and bad in having all but one of the top WWs. The good thing is they can let them all fight each other, have the biggest, most meaningful match ups at WW, take in all the profits, but in the end they will all go to war with each other :lol: and Terrance Crawford will fight softer opposition while not having to go through those wars.

That's what I think will happen with Wilder, Joshua, and Fury. Fury can keep fighting Contenders, make huge money, lay low, fly underneath the radar, and eventually Wilder and Joshua will have to fight each other. When they do one or both of them will take some damage and likely get KO'd. Then they will have a rematch clause and who knows possibly beat the shit out of each other in a trilogy.

I don't see it ending well for Keith Thurman. If he we're smart he'd fight Pacman and go enjoy his life with his wife. But, he's a fighter and pride is what got him this far and he will go out on his shield. He's on borrowed time imo.
 
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I tend to give more credence to a unified champ if they were the one's to go out, put in the work, and unify the titles themselves. Those titles were unified by Floyd Mayweather, then vacated. Keith Thurman merely went out there and collected the scraps, and I'd honestly need to do a quick search to see who he beat for his first title. Errol Spence offered him a unique opportunity to put in the work of unifying the titles AND shutting down the biggest challenge to his dominion, and Keith simply balked and hid behind the politics of the sport.

I want to see the best fight right away. None of these dudes are spring chickens anymore. Can you imagine if Ray Leonard and Tommy Hearns waited until they were 32-35 years old to fight each other.

Danny Garcia has done absolutely nothing at welter to establish himself as some sort of roadblock. I'd rather see him in with Mikey Garcia, tbh.
Trust me they are all fighting each other next. They got nobody else to fight but each other. I read Spence v Porter and Garcia v Garcia was being made days ago.

Don't sleep on Garcia though those losses we're the best thing to happen to him. Brought him down to earth.
 
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steviebruno

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We can agree to disagree, but I really don't think he is in his prime. His physical prime, yes, but the fight IQ is not there. He's only going to get better, but I worry about Errol getting too arrogant he seems quite arrogant in interviews. I just want him to stay discipline. His trainer knows what he has.

I'd like to see Crawford fight at least one of them now, but PBC won't do that. Their is good and bad in having all but one of the top WWs. The good thing is they can let them all fight each other, have the biggest, most meaningful match ups at WW, take in all the profits, but in the end they will all go to war with each other :lol: and Terrance Crawford will fight softer opposition while not having to go through those wars.

That's what I think will happen with Wilder, Joshua, and Fury. Fury can keep fighting Contenders, make huge money, lay low, fly underneath the radar, and eventually Wilder and Joshua will have to fight each other. When they do one or both of them will take some damage and likely get KO'd. Then they will have a rematch clause and who knows possibly beat the shit out of each other in a trilogy.

I don't see it ending well for Keith Thurman. If he we're smart he'd fight Pacman and go enjoy his life with his wife. But, he's a fighter and pride is what got him this far and he will go out on his shield. He's on borrowed time imo.
I can't really disagree with anything here, apart from Errol's arrogance. He is probably as humble as a fighter can be and is just aggravated by Thurman, being an old school type of dude. Keith Thurman is a very effective troll, if you haven't seen his interviews.


Terrence is about 31 now, right? I don't think that he can really afford to wait all that long.
 
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