Let's be reality, Mayweather was a better fighter p4p than Pernell Whitaker

Greater fighter P4P


  • Total voters
    27

tommygun711

You don't have the capability for mayhem
Jun 4, 2013
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Pea was not faster than Mayweather no did he have better reflexes.
that is debatable. Some of you are underrating whitaker here. He has a better resume than Floyd for starters. IMO he was robbed in the de la hoya fight. And that was a young, more prime de la hoya compared to the old one that Floyd beat.
 
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tommygun711

You don't have the capability for mayhem
Jun 4, 2013
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4,652
You may be right that Pea fought the better comp however he did win the most importants of all of them those fights. Pea also lost to fighters that he shouldn't have lost to like Jose Louis Ramirez. Had pea gotten those decisions against Hoya and Trinidad I would have agreed with you that he was a greater.
He was robbed against jose luiz ramirez man. He clearly won that fight.

Vs Trinidad Pea did not deserve that decision, De la hoya i would say Sweet pea should have received the decision.
 
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Jul 23, 2017
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He was robbed against jose luiz ramirez man. He clearly won that fight.

Trinidad he did not deserve that decision, De la hoya i would say Sweet pea should have received the decision.
I need to revisit that Ramirez fight. I believe the last time I saw it I was a highschool sophmore. The Hoya fight was close. The judges gave it Hoya because was busier.
 
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tommygun711

You don't have the capability for mayhem
Jun 4, 2013
13,391
4,652
I need to revisit that Ramirez fight. I believe the last time I saw it I was a highschool sophmore. The Hoya fight was close. The judges gave it Hoya because was busier.
Yeah, De La Hoya was busier, but it wasn't effective aggression. Pea was making him look stupid at times of the fight.
 
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Jul 23, 2017
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Yeah, De La Hoya was busier, but it wasn't effective aggression. Pea was making him look stupid at times of the fight.
Ya he may have made Oscar miss however he was throwing enough. The same shit that cost against Ramirez
This was an area were Mayweather tromps Pea. And he was also more accurate than Pea. Mayweather always found a way to balance his offense with his dense. This not an opinion, statistically Mayweather has the highest alltime connect ratio. He also has 0 loses compared to Pea's 4.
 

tommygun711

You don't have the capability for mayhem
Jun 4, 2013
13,391
4,652
Ya he may have made Oscar miss however he was throwing enough. The same shit that cost against Ramirez
This was an area were Mayweather tromps Pea. And he was also more accurate than Pea. Mayweather always found a way to balance his offense with his dense. This not an opinion, statistically Mayweather has the highest alltime connect ratio. He also has 0 loses compared to Pea's 4.
Some good points here. However to push back on your statistic argument, punchstats only started being recorded in 1985. They can also be unreliable/inaccurate. Obviously Floyd was VERY accurate, though. Pinpoint accuracy.

I dont think he lost to either ramirez or de la hoya, the judges always give more credit to ineffective offense instead of effective defense, thats always been the case. There are always shitty decisions as well.

Again I rate Whitaker higher than Mayweather. His win column imo is better then Mayweathers. It is debatable, and Floyd had more longevity, but I still rate Whitaker higher.
 
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Apr 5, 2020
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You may be right that Pea fought the better comp however he did win the most importants of all of them those fights. Pea also lost to fighters that he shouldn't have lost to like Jose Louis Ramirez. Had pea gotten those decisions against Hoya and Trinidad I would have agreed with you that he was a greater.
An argument could be made that Whitaker beat Ramirez more conclusively than Floyd beat Castillo and Maidana.
 
Jun 22, 2013
4,178
1,494
You may be right that Pea fought the better comp however he did win the most importants of all of them those fights. Pea also lost to fighters that he shouldn't have lost to like Jose Louis Ramirez. Had pea gotten those decisions against Hoya and Trinidad I would have agreed with you that he was a greater.
If I based my personal judgement on the official decisions, then Floyd beats Pea on resume. However, if I base it on what I see with my own eyes, Pernell was the better fighter of the two. Close but clear.
 

tommygun711

You don't have the capability for mayhem
Jun 4, 2013
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4,652
If I based my personal judgement on the official decisions, then Floyd beats Pea on resume. However, if I base it on what I see with my own eyes, Pernell was the better fighter of the two. Close but clear.
I wouldn't say Floyd had the better resume either. Pea should have a decision win over Julio Cesar Chavez. They fucked Pea over in that fight. Chavez is probably a better victory than most of Floyd's wins, if not all of them. I definitely rate Chavez higher than pacquiao and canelo.
 
Jul 23, 2017
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If I based my personal judgement on the official decisions, then Floyd beats Pea on resume. However, if I base it on what I see with my own eyes, Pernell was the better fighter of the two. Close but clear.
With a name like yours I would be foolish to expect anything less from you regarding this issue.
Resume huh. What name on Pea's record is > Canelo Alvarez?
Mayweather beat more world champions than Pea.
Mayweather won championship in more weight classes than pea.
Mayweather was fighter of the decade, Pea wasn't.
Mayweather is was undefeated, Pea wasn't.
Mayweather sat on top of pfp list for over a decade. In peas era belonged to Jones Jr.

Mayweather was a better defensive fighters than Pea, I know you'll probably deny it but copybox proves it. The man has the highest +- than any fighter since that record has been kept.

Mayweather longevity was > Pea.

Disclaimer. Pea is one of the greatest fighters of all time. I'm in no way trying to minimize what he did in the sports.
 

tommygun711

You don't have the capability for mayhem
Jun 4, 2013
13,391
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Resume huh. What name on Pea's record is > Canelo Alvarez?
Julio Cesar Chavez>Canelo. :good

also you mention number of world champions, but you dont acknowledge how much easier it is to get a title in floyds era compared to sweet pea's era.

Mayweather was a better defensive fighters than Pea, I know you'll probably deny it but copybox proves it. The man has the highest +- than any fighter since that record has kept.
thats completely debatable. Their defensive styles were not the same. Floyd was a bit more minimalist.

Compubox is also not flawless. Its a pretty low tech system, and its not even worth citing here.. Compubox is literally just guys pushing 4 different keys/buttons. Its just two guys sitting ringisde pushing buttons when they think a punch hit or when it missed. The operators do not have the benefit of different camera angles or slow motion like we do. Also, punches landed doesn't differentiate between a glancing blow or a loaded up shot flush to the chin. This is the problem with citing punch stats, or compubox.
 
Apr 5, 2020
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I wouldn't say Floyd had the better resume either. Pea should have a decision win over Julio Cesar Chavez. They fucked Pea over in that fight. Chavez is probably a better victory than most of Floyd's wins, if not all of them. I definitely rate Chavez higher than pacquiao and canelo.
If we go by the official decisions, which was Sweet Pea's argument, then Floyd probably does have the better resume. But to neglect the facts that Pea clearly beat Ramirez and Chavez despite the scorecards would be short-sighted.
 

tommygun711

You don't have the capability for mayhem
Jun 4, 2013
13,391
4,652
If we go by the official decisions, which was Sweet Pea's argument, then Floyd probably does have the better resume. But to neglect the facts that Pea clearly beat Ramirez and Chavez despite the scorecards would be short-sighted.
I would also add a young de la hoya to that list of pea victories.
 
Jul 23, 2017
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Julio Cesar Chavez>Canelo. :good

also you mention number of world champions, but you dont acknowledge how much easier it is to get a title in floyds era compared to sweet pea's era.



thats completely debatable. Their defensive styles were not the same. Floyd was a bit more minimalist.

Compubox is also not flawless. Its a pretty low tech system, and its not even worth citing here.. Compubox is literally just guys pushing 4 different keys/buttons. Its just two guys sitting ringisde pushing buttons when they think a punch hit or when it missed. The operators do not have the benefit of different camera angles or slow motion like we do. Also, punches landed doesn't differentiate between a glancing blow or a loaded up shot flush to the chin. This is the problem with citing punch stats, or compubox.
Though I believe Pea beat Chavez Sr decisively, we still have to go by the history books.

I agree with you that copybox is imperfect, however in an imperfect world it is the best metrics available at our disposal. When you combine the eye test along with copybox, it's had not to acknowledge that Mayweather is at least closest to the best defensive fighter in the history of modern boxing. Even if he isn't, what separates Mayweather from the greatest defensive fighter of all time is no more than a hair's breadth. It's that close.
 
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tommygun711

You don't have the capability for mayhem
Jun 4, 2013
13,391
4,652
Though I believe Pea beat Chavez Sr decisively, we still have to go by the history books.

I agree with you that copybox is imperfect, however in an imperfect world it is the best metrics available at our disposal. When you combine the eye test along with copybox, it's had not to acknowledge that Mayweather is at least closest to the best defensive fighter in the history of modern boxing. Even if he isn't, what separates Mayweather from the greatest defensive fighter of all time is no more than a hair's breadth. It's that close.
I will probably disagree with you on solely going by official decisions. While boxing is a subjective, opinionated sport, under no standard did Julio Cesar Chavez draw with Whitaker. I dont care what the 3 blind mice who scored that fight say. After all, one of the judges in canelo-mayweather scored it a draw, dude.

Let me give you some examples of the judges getting it wrong:

Lewis-Holyfield 1
Rocky Lockridge vs Wilfredo Gomez
Whitaker vs Ramirez 1
Fenech vs Nelson 1
de la hoya vs trinidad
foreman vs briggs
jimmy young vs ali
jimmy young vs norton
james toney vs david tiberi
paul williams vs lara
holyfield vs valuev
helenius vs chisora
rios vs abril

The list goes on. Any objective viewer can see all of those fights were robberies, and they should be viewed as such.

...Like I said, CompuBox is a relatively new, imperfect system. Using that as a metric to say Floyd is the best defensive fighter of all time, is probably not appropriate. Willie Pep is one guy I would mention as a comparable defensive fighter. I think Nicolino Locche deserves a mention here too... Hell, even Jimmy Young as far as heavyweights.


 
Jun 22, 2013
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1,494
He clearly beat Ramirez and Chavez. I thought he edged De La Hoya as well. In my eyes that would give him the clear resume edge over Mayweather. However, if you're only going by the official decisions, I'd agree that Mayweather beats him on resume. That was my point.

Doesn't matter, anyway. Whitaker was just the better fighter of the two, prime for prime, the way I see it. No way in hell did Floyd have a better offense. Technically speaking, Whitaker was as complete an offensive fighter, inside and outside, as there's ever been. He just lacked explosive power. I don't see Floyd beating up Chavez during infighting exchanges the way Whitaker did.

And who cares about +- punch stats? Obviously with his negative, pot-shotting style, Floyd was going to be extremely efficient in that regard. Whitaker often threw over 100 punches a round and was almost always on the offensive (aside from instances where he was clowning on purpose, which I didn't care for), even though he fought off the back foot. He threw and landed far more punches than Floyd ever did. I'll take that over Compubox +- any day.

Defensively you could argue it for Floyd due to his more negative style. Offensively I don't see how you can unless you're speaking exclusively about his time at 130.
 
Jan 9, 2014
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To argue Floyd was better offensive than Sweet Pea your basically have to admit you haven't seen a Pea fight. Be has a significant edge on offense at basically every level from combination punching, infighting, jab (Floyd doesn't have any performance sniffing the Nelson jab clinic or the pick apart of Chavez) etc.

Floyd had a better pull counter and arguably check hook. Besides that what does be do better on offense?

Defensively you can make a case either way. Both relied on natural reflexes a good deal but I'd say Floyd was bit more fundamentally sound. Obviously much more conservative which made defense easier compared to line of fire Pernell put himself in comparison while scoring more effectively

Overall Pea is a better, southpaw Floyd with far greater offensive ability on the outside from jab to combination punching and specially inside. Floyd is great but Pea was a couple tiers greater