Post Something Controversial

May 19, 2013
1,203
821
I can understand that viewpoint for the first season, although it moves along at a steady pace after that (Fly episode excluded).
I gave it two seasons and then gave up cause at that point I realised it wasn't for me.
 
Reactions: dkos
May 16, 2013
7,191
5,182
Breaking bad is a boring TV show.
It's funny how people's tastes can be so different. I got half way through the second series of The Wire and still couldn't get into it. It ried the first series three times.
 
May 19, 2013
15,636
5,556
Floyd is one of the top 10 boxers in history based on talent/ability meshed with achievements. Others had better achievements with less ability, others may have had a slightly higher ability but not the achievements. In terms of a combination of both, he's top 10 for me. Guy had a gift and drive that few will ever come close to matching.
I'm not sure it's that controversial.

Personally I'd have him top 20 somewhere, but having him as high as 10 isn't too controversial.
 

Jay

Staff member
May 31, 2012
12,179
1,001,123
I'm not sure it's that controversial.

Personally I'd have him top 20 somewhere, but having him as high as 10 isn't too controversial.
Normally that gets derided badly. I think talent wise he's up there, and his drive and focus is unmatched, and so rare to see that on someone so naturally talented. Maybe there are questions on his achievements/resume (although I think that's harsh), and there are certainly those with greater resume/achievements, but talent+skill+personal drive, he's up there at the top of history.
 

DBerry

complete and utter prick
Jun 11, 2013
37,822
13,076
47
'Straya, cunt.
I'm not sure it's that controversial.

Personally I'd have him top 20 somewhere, but having him as high as 10 isn't too controversial.
Normally that gets derided badly. I think talent wise he's up there, and his drive and focus is unmatched, and so rare to see that on someone so naturally talented. Maybe there are questions on his achievements/resume (although I think that's harsh), and there are certainly those with greater resume/achievements, but talent+skill+personal drive, he's up there at the top of history.
I don’t know if he’s top 20 or not (funny enough a lot of fighters don’t worry about ranking “top 20’s” or whatever), I feel that he most certainly is not, though, however, I do acknowledge @Jay ‘s talking about his drive, work ethic, ring control, boxing brain, self control and ability. If he was in a ‘Trump Card’ game he would be hard to top, his resume is very good but on closer inspection there are flaws, more importantly there seems to be this current ‘boxing hipster’ thing about “pure boxers/boxing”, let me tell you right now, running and failing to engage is not boxing.
 

Pedderrs

DKSAB
Jun 1, 2012
21,834
14,169
29
United Kingdom
I don’t know if he’s top 20 or not (funny enough a lot of fighters don’t worry about ranking “top 20’s” or whatever), I feel that he most certainly is not, though, however, I do acknowledge @Jay ‘s talking about his drive, work ethic, ring control, boxing brain, self control and ability. If he was in a ‘Trump Card’ game he would be hard to top, his resume is very good but on closer inspection there are flaws, more importantly there seems to be this current ‘boxing hipster’ thing about “pure boxers/boxing”, let me tell you right now, running and failing to engage is not boxing.

 

Trail

R.I.P. Joe Rein
May 24, 2013
30,155
6,635
i think he's just an alt who wanted in on the love guys like john garfield and burt used to get.
John Garfield (Joe Rein) was fucking untouchable. Even off forum if you emailed him - as I did regularly - he would get back to you in a heartbeat. His knowledge of boxing was fucking ace. I miss that fella. Still have a day of mourning each November on the date of his passing.
 
Jun 3, 2012
11,047
10,871
Korakuen Hall
i think he's just an alt who wanted in on the love guys like john garfield and burt used to get.
He's not an alt. People have met him off the forum, and he was even seen on TV during a boxing show (when we knew he'd be in the press section because another poster arranged it).
 

kf3

Jul 17, 2012
3,754
1,806
South London
He's not an alt. People have met him off the forum, and he was even seen on TV during a boxing show (when we knew he'd be in the press section because another poster arranged it).
fair enough, but i totally disagree and am going to re write the thing i said that we now all know was wrong.

regards, (my name is 2 inches away, why would i write it again here.)
 
Reactions: Smith
Jun 4, 2012
25,827
15,942
Normally that gets derided badly. I think talent wise he's up there, and his drive and focus is unmatched, and so rare to see that on someone so naturally talented. Maybe there are questions on his achievements/resume (although I think that's harsh), and there are certainly those with greater resume/achievements, but talent+skill+personal drive, he's up there at the top of history.
I think his drive to truly prove he was the best is the worst thing about him actually. Ability...elite. Drive to be wildly rich? Yeah...but countless times he waited until his best opponents had shown weaknesses elsewhere before he fought them. On names along, his record is outrageous. Corrales, JMM, Pacman, Mosley, Castillo, Hatton, DLH, Judah, Cotto, Canelo, Mitchell and even Maidana.

Then you ask, how many of those were seen as major threats at the time, and at or close to their best? The answer at best is Corrales, Castillo, Hatton and Canelo. But Castillo was not expected to be as tough as he was the first time around, he had been stopped 3 or 4 times before.

The reality is that he would have beaten a prime Mosley, Cotto, Pacman etc, but he waited until there was visible decline or someone else had shown they had weaknesses. He fights Judah right have Judah just lost to Baldomir. He fights DLH when he's already lost to Mosley and Trinidad and is just visibly way past his best. He fights JMM when he has started to look faded and has lost recently. He fights Mosley after Mosley has been out for over a year and has already lost to Cotto 3 years before. He fights Cotto when Cotto has now lost to Margarito and Pacman.

And worst of all, he stalls on the Pacman fight for years. When tons of people thought Pac would take him, it was 2009-2010. He'd battered DLH, blown away Hatton, beaten down Cotto and dominated Clottey. But no...PBF waits, waits and makes excuses even though he would have won comfortably against any version. But to be sure, he waits and then after Pacman visibly slows, loses to Bradley, gets KO'd by JMM...then 6 years after people were desperate for it, he signs up.

To me, the best thing that could have happened to PBF's career would have been to have lost the first Castillo fight on a SD. The whole "unbeaten" thing would have gone, and the fear of losing that 0 would be gone. He would have had the excuse of the injury and would have won the rematch as he did, but maybe without that determination to never lose the 0, he would have taken some of the best names on when many felt they would win.
 
Jun 14, 2012
12,719
5,430
I think his drive to truly prove he was the best is the worst thing about him actually. Ability...elite. Drive to be wildly rich? Yeah...but countless times he waited until his best opponents had shown weaknesses elsewhere before he fought them. On names along, his record is outrageous. Corrales, JMM, Pacman, Mosley, Castillo, Hatton, DLH, Judah, Cotto, Canelo, Mitchell and even Maidana.

Then you ask, how many of those were seen as major threats at the time, and at or close to their best? The answer at best is Corrales, Castillo, Hatton and Canelo. But Castillo was not expected to be as tough as he was the first time around, he had been stopped 3 or 4 times before.

The reality is that he would have beaten a prime Mosley, Cotto, Pacman etc, but he waited until there was visible decline or someone else had shown they had weaknesses. He fights Judah right have Judah just lost to Baldomir. He fights DLH when he's already lost to Mosley and Trinidad and is just visibly way past his best. He fights JMM when he has started to look faded and has lost recently. He fights Mosley after Mosley has been out for over a year and has already lost to Cotto 3 years before. He fights Cotto when Cotto has now lost to Margarito and Pacman.

And worst of all, he stalls on the Pacman fight for years. When tons of people thought Pac would take him, it was 2009-2010. He'd battered DLH, blown away Hatton, beaten down Cotto and dominated Clottey. But no...PBF waits, waits and makes excuses even though he would have won comfortably against any version. But to be sure, he waits and then after Pacman visibly slows, loses to Bradley, gets KO'd by JMM...then 6 years after people were desperate for it, he signs up.

To me, the best thing that could have happened to PBF's career would have been to have lost the first Castillo fight on a SD. The whole "unbeaten" thing would have gone, and the fear of losing that 0 would be gone. He would have had the excuse of the injury and would have won the rematch as he did, but maybe without that determination to never lose the 0, he would have taken some of the best names on when many felt they would win.
I think you're being a bit harsh there. I agree with a lot of what you said but I think Mayweather doesn't gget a fair enough shake when it comes to certain opponents. I see people saying Cotto was shot, he wasn't, Pacquiao was shot, he wasn't. Past his best definitely but Mayweather is actually older and Pacquiao had an argument for fighter of the year the year after they fought. The fight definitely should have happened in 2010 though.

Shane Mosley only ended up fighting Mayweather because the earthquake in Haiti caused Berto to pull out of their fight and although Mosley was past his best and had a year lay off he was still coming off one of his best performances in a long time. People tend to forget that Mayweather had a tendency to fight lads who were coming in off career best wins in the latter part of his career. Guerrero, Ortiz and Maidana twice. The Marquez win should count as a good win too in my opinion. I know he fucked around on the scales but beating Marquez after a two year lay off is no mean feat. Size didn't play much of a part in that fight either.
 
Reactions: Knox Harrington
Jun 4, 2012
25,827
15,942
I think you're being a bit harsh there. I agree with a lot of what you said but I think Mayweather doesn't gget a fair enough shake when it comes to certain opponents. I see people saying Cotto was shot, he wasn't, Pacquiao was shot, he wasn't. Past his best definitely but Mayweather is actually older and Pacquiao had an argument for fighter of the year the year after they fought. The fight definitely should have happened in 2010 though.

Shane Mosley only ended up fighting Mayweather because the earthquake in Haiti caused Berto to pull out of their fight and although Mosley was past his best and had a year lay off he was still coming off one of his best performances in a long time. People tend to forget that Mayweather had a tendency to fight lads who were coming in off career best wins in the latter part of his career. Guerrero, Ortiz and Maidana twice. The Marquez win should count as a good win too in my opinion. I know he fucked around on the scales but beating Marquez after a two year lay off is no mean feat. Size didn't play much of a part in that fight either.
I don't say those people were shot, I say he waited until someone else had shown up their flaws and beaten them before he took them on. I think he was incredible, but he could have dared to put it all on the line and fight guys at their peak when many doubted the outcome. How many of the big names did he beat where he was even close to being the underdog or it seen as a close fight? A few...Corrales, Hatton (by some deluded people) and who else? Later on, that was because PBF seemed too good, but he chose to take people on later than he should have.

Same criticism in a way goes to RJJ. He should have fought Dariusz even if it meant going to Europe...just go and batter him (as he would have done) at the height of his powers, come over and wipe the floor with Collins or Eubank at their best. There are fighters who truly want to fight the best and there are those who allow obsessions with their worth or who should call the shots to slightly get in the way. With PBF...I don't he feared anyone, but I think he feared losing the 0 and not being able to retire undefeated, and it brought in a level of cautiousness that is a blot on an amazing record.
 

Dazl1212

Ripley, strong independent woman who don't no man
May 16, 2013
18,674
5,173
UK
I don't say those people were shot, I say he waited until someone else had shown up their flaws and beaten them before he took them on. I think he was incredible, but he could have dared to put it all on the line and fight guys at their peak when many doubted the outcome. How many of the big names did he beat where he was even close to being the underdog or it seen as a close fight? A few...Corrales, Hatton (by some deluded people) and who else? Later on, that was because PBF seemed too good, but he chose to take people on later than he should have.

Same criticism in a way goes to RJJ. He should have fought Dariusz even if it meant going to Europe...just go and batter him (as he would have done) at the height of his powers, come over and wipe the floor with Collins or Eubank at their best. There are fighters who truly want to fight the best and there are those who allow obsessions with their worth or who should call the shots to slightly get in the way. With PBF...I don't he feared anyone, but I think he feared losing the 0 and not being able to retire undefeated, and it brought in a level of cautiousness that is a blot on an amazing record.
Mayweather was talented enough to be the best ever. But he was more interested in earning money whilst taking as little damage as possible IMO. Can't really fault him for it in a lot of ways of you look at it from his point of view.
 
Reactions: Trail and Strike