Pro Wrestling Thread -- Money in the Bank Tonight!

Jun 14, 2012
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I hope this thing becomes a roaring success. I don't watch wrestling anymore but it seems from what I've read that the WWE holds its best talent back and the whole thing has gotten stale beyond belief. This AEW will probably never reach a spectacle like Wrestlemania but in terms of in ring performances and storylines I hope it shits on WWE from a great height and hopefully a big audience will see it.
 

kf3

Jul 17, 2012
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I don't see much of an issue with that. I mean, in MMA when you watch the UFC you have everybody's career records, but nobody cares about how many people you knocked over on the regional scene. 6-2 in the UFC is considered far more impressive than 18-0 on the regional scene and you're making your UFC debut. Those 18 wins basically mean nothing if they didn't come in the UFC or Bellator at least. Introducing Chris Jericho as "6-3 in AEW competition" - I have no problem with that. :conf

:hat
remember when jericho beat hhh and the rock on the same night? nah, i don't really watch regional promotions.
 

Haggis

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May 16, 2013
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remember when jericho beat hhh and the rock on the same night? nah, i don't really watch regional promotions.
:lol:

Yeah true, but on the other hand - what does what the guy did in a different promotion 20 years and six gimmicks ago, have to do with his current run in AEW? All I'm saying is, it's not exactly unprecedented for a promotion to keep a record of an athlete's performances and ignore anything that came outside of that promotion.

:hat
 
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:lol:

Yeah true, but on the other hand - what does what the guy did in a different promotion 20 years and six gimmicks ago, have to do with his current run in AEW? All I'm saying is, it's not exactly unprecedented for a promotion to keep a record of an athlete's performances and ignore anything that came outside of that promotion.

:hat
Didn't WWE completely ignore Stings 10 year run in TNA. They just let on like he sat around and did nothing since WCW folded.
 

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didn’t tna do something like that keeping track of everyone’s records etc

Dunno about real stats in fake sports think it’ll just lead them booking themselves into corners unnecessarily but let’s see

They did briefly and it was good, but they then kept on with odd booking and random shit happening rather than building feuds or towards PPV events so it kinda fell apart. The Bound For Glory series had a go too and I enjoyed that, you felt wrestlers were building real momentum and they gave good reason's for wins and losses, really helped build Bobby Roode and James Storm and made Gunner look a potential star. Thn it fell apart.
 

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I hope this thing becomes a roaring success. I don't watch wrestling anymore but it seems from what I've read that the WWE holds its best talent back and the whole thing has gotten stale beyond belief. This AEW will probably never reach a spectacle like Wrestlemania but in terms of in ring performances and storylines I hope it shits on WWE from a great height and hopefully a big audience will see it.

WWE has so many absolutely stunning wrestlers in the company and I still can't be bothered to keep track on it. NXT is always a great watch, then straight away someone moves to the main roster they turn to shit, it is annoying and embarrassing. Can't get my head around how they can get it so right then so wrong, the move a wrestler makes from a indie star to moving up th roster in NXT is always a great journey, that transfer to WWE is then a joke.

I've kinda fallen away with wrestling from how I have been over the last decade. I got real into it again due to my kids and TNA beingon Freeview. We've seen loads of promotions over, ROH, TNA, WWE, NXT and smaller companies, but not been to anything live for over a year. This is exactly what I as a wrestling fan want. I stopped going and so did my kids interest due to the NXT/WWE prolem ,you can't invest in a character or story which kills it. We are all anticipating AEW and ready to get back into the show. Plus it is on ITV so easy to follow rather than some dodgy network.
 
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WWE has so many absolutely stunning wrestlers in the company and I still can't be bothered to keep track on it. NXT is always a great watch, then straight away someone moves to the main roster they turn to shit, it is annoying and embarrassing. Can't get my head around how they can get it so right then so wrong, the move a wrestler makes from a indie star to moving up th roster in NXT is always a great journey, that transfer to WWE is then a joke.
Yeah I've heard that. The Irish bloke Balor was made champion very shortly after moving from NXT. Got injured as hasn't really been pushed since. I may be wrong though. Why did he have to go to NXT in the first place. From what I understand he was massive over in Japan, highly rated amongst wrestling fans and he either started or had a huge involvement with that Bullet Club thing. Why does a bloke with that kind of pedigree have to go into some development program.
 

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Yeah I've heard that. The Irish bloke Balor was made champion very shortly after moving from NXT. Got injured as hasn't really been pushed since. I may be wrong though. Why did he have to go to NXT in the first place. From what I understand he was massive over in Japan, highly rated amongst wrestling fans and he either started or had a huge involvement with that Bullet Club thing. Why does a bloke with that kind of pedigree have to go into some development program.

It is because to WWE and Vince the only thing that matters is WWE so anyone who is a world class talent and huge anywhere else isn't actually anything til they've done it in WWE, they are lower than the bottom of the card. Because of that NXT is a god send, you get to see talents who are already well down their development path face each other in proper rivalries. In WWE Balor has become a tiny nice Irish guy that once in awhile wears paint, it is totally meh who cares so even ardent fans can't be bothered watching him or putting any faith to any of the roster. I'm not saying Balor is a main event guy, he is far off it due to his awkward mic attempts, but he can put on a hell of a show
 
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WWE has so many absolutely stunning wrestlers in the company and I still can't be bothered to keep track on it. NXT is always a great watch, then straight away someone moves to the main roster they turn to shit, it is annoying and embarrassing. Can't get my head around how they can get it so right then so wrong, the move a wrestler makes from a indie star to moving up th roster in NXT is always a great journey, that transfer to WWE is then a joke.
I think a lot of the problem is these guys are indie/nxt type stars or japan type stars and are not WWE type stars, like Balor I remember watching a BBC or C4 documentary on him before he joined WWE and just knowing he is not cut out for WWE main event at all, he seemed like a really good guy in the program but hes a tiny little introvert hes the exact opposite of larger than life and is just not cut out to be a top guy in WWE.

I think theres something broken with the system as well in that they push these guys way too fast too soon on the main roster because they get the smark fans "I WATCH NXT AND NJPW!!! I KNOW WHO THIS IS!!!!!!" pops at first and then they beat John Cena and main event and win the titles in their first couple months then most of them just cant or arent allowed to live up to that level to genuinely be a main event star and then everyone thinks theyre being buried when they join the midcard again. Clearly some people should debut at a main event level, or get booked strong AF early on but also people should build themselves up slowly over time now, or just be on the show and then work their way up and get over through their talent and then get the push, for a lot of guys their peaks are their debut programs which is totally backwards.

NXT in its current form isnt working, it still hasnt produced a legit star outside of Reigns which is obviously a special case, all the others who came through NXT wrestled other places for years I think.

I just think its the wrong type of talent for WWE main event stuff too Ive seen a lot of people on podcasts or twitter saying this is the most talented roster of all time and its just WWE booking them wrong and I couldnt disagree more, how can this be more talented than like Rock Austin Taker Foley HHH Angle Jericho etc or Hogan Savage Piper Dibiase Roberts etc like I get for in ring athleticism they obviously are but for what makes a WWE main event type, nah.
 
Jul 29, 2012
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I hope this thing becomes a roaring success. I don't watch wrestling anymore but it seems from what I've read that the WWE holds its best talent back and the whole thing has gotten stale beyond belief. This AEW will probably never reach a spectacle like Wrestlemania but in terms of in ring performances and storylines I hope it shits on WWE from a great height and hopefully a big audience will see it.
Their shorts on YouTube are fantastic. I haven't watched the preliminary PPV that the group did to get funding and all that, but the vignettes are great.
 

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I think a lot of the problem is these guys are indie/nxt type stars or japan type stars and are not WWE type stars, like Balor I remember watching a BBC or C4 documentary on him before he joined WWE and just knowing he is not cut out for WWE main event at all, he seemed like a really good guy in the program but hes a tiny little introvert hes the exact opposite of larger than life and is just not cut out to be a top guy in WWE.

I think theres something broken with the system as well in that they push these guys way too fast too soon on the main roster because they get the smark fans "I WATCH NXT AND NJPW!!! I KNOW WHO THIS IS!!!!!!" pops at first and then they beat John Cena and main event and win the titles in their first couple months then most of them just cant or arent allowed to live up to that level to genuinely be a main event star and then everyone thinks theyre being buried when they join the midcard again. Clearly some people should debut at a main event level, or get booked strong AF early on but also people should build themselves up slowly over time now, or just be on the show and then work their way up and get over through their talent and then get the push, for a lot of guys their peaks are their debut programs which is totally backwards.

NXT in its current form isnt working, it still hasnt produced a legit star outside of Reigns which is obviously a special case, all the others who came through NXT wrestled other places for years I think.

I just think its the wrong type of talent for WWE main event stuff too Ive seen a lot of people on podcasts or twitter saying this is the most talented roster of all time and its just WWE booking them wrong and I couldnt disagree more, how can this be more talented than like Rock Austin Taker Foley HHH Angle Jericho etc or Hogan Savage Piper Dibiase Roberts etc like I get for in ring athleticism they obviously are but for what makes a WWE main event type, nah.


I think WWE created NXT because they couldn't create their own stars. They'd tried for years and failed. Taking guys who were already half way there was an easy answer and probably a good one. The wrestling business has changed. Fans have changed. Fans want more than a big guy who does a pose and a leg drop. Fans have taken more to guys like Daniel Bryan, AJ Styles and Seth Rollins who are no where near the size of even the guys from the early 2000s never mind the periods before.

You are right about the logic of how guys are put on to TV. They have a great mini push then WWE don't know what to do so they stagnate til the next person pops up and does the same. The problem is that even the already there been there for years guys face the same problems. Not everyone is able to cut it at main event. I wouldn't say Balor is, he is an upper mid card guy with a gimmick. I rate s many of the guys that have come through NXT in recent years, but would only say Bobby Roode is a genuine Main Event guy and he's obviously met his peak already seeing how his career has gone over the last year. The rest are those guys that a company needs, especially the mammoth size WWE is now just to fill out TV, house shows, tours and the two brands.

The depth of talent far outweighs previous generations. At the top end, that 5/6 elite guys they are lacking.

Take Adam Cole for example. He has everything, but is tiny even compared to Balor. No way is he the answer, people say he is, but no. He is however someone who will look good further down the card. Compare him to the lower card guys at any other time and he is light years ahead.
 
Jun 14, 2012
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On the topic of main event stars. Do you really have to have the main title or be in the main event consistently to be a star. I don't think so. Interesting characters and good in ring ability will get you far if it's allowed to flourish. In this day and age I find it hard to get my head around why such a wrestler needs to have the world title on them. In terms of pure draw and stardom I don't think it matters all that much.
 
Jun 4, 2013
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I've always wanted to se that in wrestling. Even though they're bullshit, I like seeing win/loss because it's often total bullshit that we see someone pop out and challenge the champion out of nowhere. Perfect example is that Lacey Evans I was watching today. Bitch just got on WWE after walking out and doing nothing... now she's challenging Becky for the title!? It's ridiculous.

Losses should matter. I mean we see people taking losses and the next day it doesn't even matter. WWE is a fucking joke with this shit. I think that's what wrestling really needs. AEW sounds like it's doing things right.
 
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On the topic of main event stars. Do you really have to have the main title or be in the main event consistently to be a star. I don't think so. Interesting characters and good in ring ability will get you far if it's allowed to flourish. In this day and age I find it hard to get my head around why such a wrestler needs to have the world title on them. In terms of pure draw and stardom I don't think it matters all that much.

Some guys do need a title to look legit Main Event. Others can get by without it. The problem is a lot of the wrstlers get such stop start pushes on stupid losses at dumb times to stupid wrestlers that the only thing that can save them is a run with a belt. Bray Wyatt has been a fan fave for his entire run, but lost every big run he had then got given the opponent role, WWE knew he'd still be liked and had a popular gimmick so saw giving him losses as OK because it would not totally destroy him. It does however put him in the pile with all the rest that have had the same done to them. The oh everyone likes them put they ain't ever going tp be the top guy or capable to headline a PPV. Bray Wyatt has been away and come back with a great new gimmick, it is awesome. Do fans like him? Yep. Do fans think he'll be headlining? Hell no. If he won a main title and defended it for several months he would however change all that. He has everything to be a main event title carrying guy with a good long push, after that he wouldn't need a title any more, you could do the same with someone else, but Bray would e seen as legitimate whenever Undertaker, Reigns, Cena needed an opponent instead of oh that's who they've decided is getting beat this week. Unfortunately WWE drop the ball pretty much every time.
 
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Some guys do need a title to look legit Main Event. Others can get by without it. The problem is a lot of the wrstlers get such stop start pushes on stupid losses at dumb times to stupid wrestlers that the only thing that can save them is a run with a belt. Bray Wyatt has been a fan fave for his entire run, but lost every big run he had then got given the opponent role, WWE knew he'd still be liked and had a popular gimmick so saw giving him losses as OK because it would not totally destroy him. It does however put him in the pile with all the rest that have had the same done to them. The oh everyone likes them put they ain't ever going tp be the top guy or capable to headline a PPV. Bray Wyatt has been away and come back with a great new gimmick, it is awesome. Do fans like him? Yep. Do fans think he'll be headlining? Hell no. If he won a main title and defended it for several months he would however change all that. He has everything to be a main event title carrying guy with a good long push, after that he wouldn't need a title any more, you could do the same with someone else, but Bray would e seen as legitimate whenever Undertaker, Reigns, Cena needed an opponent instead of oh that's who they've decided is getting beat this week. Unfortunately WWE drop the ball pretty much every time.
Yeah, Bray was the best champion in a while. WWE fucked it all up, though. Dude definitely has a lot of potential, but WWE just makes him take losses and doesn't know what the hell to do with him. Guy has charisma and he sure as hell could wrestle.
 
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Big problem with Brey is his matches are a snoozefest. Same with Balor, McIntyre, Roode, Lashley, AJ ect

I like the new gimmick but as soon as he starts having matches Brey cant carry any of the heat.NXT has some good trainers down there but it's turning into the Power Plant mark 2. Bunch of happy meal wrestlers

The guys come up with the poses for the entrances and you have mutliple matches on the cards with the same spots in them. It gets dull...then they have 20 minute talking segments...
 

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Big problem with Brey is his matches are a snoozefest. Same with Balor, McIntyre, Roode, Lashley, AJ ect

I like the new gimmick but as soon as he starts having matches Brey cant carry any of the heat.NXT has some good trainers down there but it's turning into the Power Plant mark 2. Bunch of happy meal wrestlers

The guys come up with the poses for the entrances and you have mutliple matches on the cards with the same spots in them. It gets dull...then they have 20 minute talking segments...

Bray isn't the greatest in ring talent, but he can carry a load and put on a good match. A lot of what makes a good match is everything else that surrounds it. That is what made a lot of the NXT stuff far better, they put on very good in ring performances but because the story telling and development was right it created special little events. You never expect Bray to beat anyone good and he isn't the level of worker that can make poor workers look terrific, which is a shame because that is the usual go to opponent WWE gives him. I like Bray, but he's been one I skip forward through when watching a show.

Balor can wrestle, I've seen nothing of him to say he isn't an easy go too spot junkie though. Of that size wrestler Austin Aries was the one that could mix it up and really tell different stories in the ring.

AJ is a phenom, you are wrong about him. Roode is alright, McIntyre a decent big man. Lashley is basically AIDS.

Some of the best legends out there were in snooze fests the majority of the time like Austin, The Rock and Bret Hart.
 
Jun 3, 2012
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I feel one of the main problems is Vince builds the show around one man: Roman Reigns.

Even when Reigns was out with leukaemia, which could have left him on the sidelines for years, he was being constantly mentioned by WWE. Obviously they had to push someone else in the meantime as the top star -- Rollins -- but with Reigns coming back much sooner than expected, they're already positioning him to regain the throne. God forbid they have multiple guys at the top...

They could have done a great, organic story with Reigns. He had just returned from cancer treatment, and they should have played on that -- there was no need for him to be Superman again from the get-go. He should have been vulnerable. He should have lost clean to McIntyre at WM. They could have built up other stars before Reigns went on a redemption arc etc. But no, they've went straight to booking him as an unbeatable force even though he always has to 'overcome the odds', whether it's because of the authority holding him back (ha!), being placed in handicap matches, and so on. It's boring. It's predictable. And all the goodwill Reigns had with the fans due to his real-life situation will be gone within months.

Of course there's also the nonsensical booking, wins/losses that mean nothing, scripted promos, overly scripted matches (got to get that suicide dive in before commercial break...), stilted commentary, nuking well-established characters from NXT as soon as they move up, not hiding weaknesses (why are Andrade and Asuka doing English promos for example?), the lack of personalities, the lack of opportunity to establish personalities, bloated rosters which are becoming even more underutilised due to this stupid 'wildcard' thing they're doing right now, Vince throwing scripts in the bin and reworking entire shows on the day/while they are happening...

AEW should be welcomed with a red carpet by WWE fans. Competition is healthy, and it might finally get WWE (minus NXT) to wake up from the slump they've been in for years. And if not, there's a viable wrestling alternative to watch on TV.
 
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