Rob McCracken ducking and weaving over concussion comments

DB Cooper

peel me a grape
May 17, 2013
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You're saying I should be outraged that RM didn't pull AJ out despite it being a World Title fight. I pointed out TF was medically concussed against Wilder and if AJ should have been pulled medically so should TF.
You claim Joshua was suffering from a 'bad concussion' that 'stopped him fighting effectively' and 'showed enough symptoms to effectively prevent him from recovering enough to compete'.

Is that not when a corner should be stopping a fight? If not when should a corner call a halt?

Or.....are you just overplaying Joshua's condition as an excuse for Ruiz humiliating your boy? You can't have it both ways.

As for comparing what Ruiz did to Joshua, to Wilder-Fury :

Ruiz dropped Joshua in the 3rd round with over 9 rounds to go, and according to you it was 'bad concussion that stopped Joshua recovering enough to compete and fight effectively.' So over 9 rounds to go and Joshua virtually incapacitated, at least according to you.

On the other hand, Wilder dropped Tyson in the 12th and final round, and as we saw Fury bounced up, continued to defend himself and then launched successful attacks on Wilder to finish the round and the fight.

Chalk and cheese comparison for anyone other than a fanatical troll like yourself.
 
Jul 6, 2019
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There are concussions that effect a fighter's ability to fight more or less than others though. In boxing terms, one that stops you from fighting effectively is inherently "bad"!





Yeh ok he is a professional so his odds would be better, for arguments sake lets say 1 in 5 of hitting AJ at exactly the spot to cause the concussion compared with say 1 in 20 of an amateur or 1 in 50 for a man off the street but that is still only 20% so 4/5 of he would miss marginally and not get the same effect.

Well a professional darts player maybe, MVG or Taylor is overegging it. Maybe like Peter Wright....

The number of factors which had to go right, both boxers body positions, angles of punches, blocks of preceding punches, movement and speed of both boxers, the variables could easily be in the hundreds if not thousands which if any one had been different would have very likely lead to a different outcome. This is not to say that Ruiz didn't do a good job to put himself in the best position to be able to do this but this was a low percentage outcome, run this scenario ten times and it ends up with this outcome 1 or 2 times.
I don't follow darts, I just picked the couple of top level guys I could remember.

Both are more accomplished in their sport than Ruiz is in his, not sure what the equivalent to a unified heavyweight champ with an extensive amateur career would be? (Is Wright the "fartgate" guy? If so he could be a good shout).

Boxing has a lot more variables than darts, but I think the general point still stands.

If someone spends their whole life training, becomes one of the best in the world, and purposefully attempts something, then it would be churlish to chalk it off to luck.

Ronaldo doesn't know if a free kick will go in, Tiger Woods didn't know if a chip shot will sink, and often the don't . But when they do, the reaction of most unbiased observers is not "that was lucky", but rather they made their luck by choosing the correct option and executing it well.

Ruiz didn't know he would concuss AJ with that punch. He knew it would be an effective shot however, instinctively selected it, and executed it perfectly. (It's also no surprise that it hurt Joshua, who is hardly George Chuvalo).

Ruiz also went on to exploit the situation, fight the right fight, and stop AJ. Just like Lennox Lewis did when he "luckily" cut Vitali with a punch. It's boxing.
 
Jun 6, 2013
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There are concussions that effect a fighter's ability to fight more or less than others though. In boxing terms, one that stops you from fighting effectively is inherently "bad"!





Yeh ok he is a professional so his odds would be better, for arguments sake lets say 1 in 5 of hitting AJ at exactly the spot to cause the concussion compared with say 1 in 20 of an amateur or 1 in 50 for a man off the street but that is still only 20% so 4/5 of he would miss marginally and not get the same effect.

Well a professional darts player maybe, MVG or Taylor is overegging it. Maybe like Peter Wright....

The number of factors which had to go right, both boxers body positions, angles of punches, blocks of preceding punches, movement and speed of both boxers, the variables could easily be in the hundreds if not thousands which if any one had been different would have very likely lead to a different outcome. This is not to say that Ruiz didn't do a good job to put himself in the best position to be able to do this but this was a low percentage outcome, run this scenario ten times and it ends up with this outcome 1 or 2 times.
Some mental gymnastics going on in your explanation.

http://www.britishboxingnews.co.uk/blogs/stats-from-anthony-joshua-vs-andy-ruiz-jr-first-fight-revealed

"Mexican-American challenger Ruiz Jr's greater output and accuracy is clearly evident in the post-fight stats above. The 31-year-old world title contender, who's only loss was to then-WBO heavyweight champion Joseph Parker, threw double the amount of power punches than the defending champion did and came close to landed almost twice as many, too.
AJ threw 26% more jabs than Ruiz, but landed 12% less, which suggests his accuracy was widely off on that night in New York."

AJ's loss wasn't down to one punch it was due to being hit accurately multiple times and not being able to be effective with his own punches.
 
Jul 6, 2019
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It's been a while since I watched them, but I remember thinking Froch was concussed in the Taylor fight, and maybe in the first Groves fight too.

All concussions are different, and people react differently, but Froch winning those would help explain why McCracken let the fight go on.

I witnessed a lot of knockdown, knockouts, and concussions during my amateur career. So god knows how many a guy like McCracken has seen. He is unlikely to be as phased as a civilian would be, and will have seen cases where someone came back to win.

I have no doubt he would have stopped the fight if he thought AJ was in real danger.
 
Sep 22, 2014
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It's been a while since I watched them, but I remember thinking Froch was concussed in the Taylor fight, and maybe in the first Groves fight too.

All concussions are different, and people react differently, but Froch winning those would help explain why McCracken let the fight go on.

I witnessed a lot of knockdown, knockouts, and concussions during my amateur career. So god knows how many a guy like McCracken has seen. He is unlikely to be as phased as a civilian would be, and will have seen cases where someone came back to win.

I have no doubt he would have stopped the fight if he thought AJ was in real danger.
Also the AJ fans are hanging the concussion arguments on him asking what round it was, which is something you see all the time in boxing. In the middle of battle you’re not chalking them up in your head. Fuck, we’ve even seen trainers asking what round it is.
 

Ar558a

Fighting the Fury loving Scum
Jun 2, 2019
797
254
You claim Joshua was suffering from a 'bad concussion' that 'stopped him fighting effectively' and 'showed enough symptoms to effectively prevent him from recovering enough to compete'.

Is that not when a corner should be stopping a fight? If not when should a corner call a halt?

Or.....are you just overplaying Joshua's condition as an excuse for Ruiz humiliating your boy? You can't have it both ways.

As for comparing what Ruiz did to Joshua, to Wilder-Fury :

Ruiz dropped Joshua in the 3rd round with over 9 rounds to go, and according to you it was 'bad concussion that stopped Joshua recovering enough to compete and fight effectively.' So over 9 rounds to go and Joshua virtually incapacitated, at least according to you.

On the other hand, Wilder dropped Tyson in the 12th and final round, and as we saw Fury bounced up, continued to defend himself and then launched successful attacks on Wilder to finish the round and the fight.

Chalk and cheese comparison for anyone other than a fanatical troll like yourself.
I don't claim it, it's very obvious that post R3 AJ was not the fighter we had seen in the previous 22 fights.

There would have to be much clearer evidence to pull a fighter out in a World Title fight especially at HW where any punch can cause issues. AJ recovered against both Whyte and WK (who are both superior fighters to Ruiz) so there would be no reason for RM to realise the severity of the concussion.

I was suggesting if you're saying AJ should be pulled for concussion when he never lost consciousness then Fury who has admitted he did also should have.

I don't follow darts, I just picked the couple of top level guys I could remember.

Both are more accomplished in their sport than Ruiz is in his, not sure what the equivalent to a unified heavyweight champ with an extensive amateur career would be? (Is Wright the "fartgate" guy? If so he could be a good shout).

Boxing has a lot more variables than darts, but I think the general point still stands.

If someone spends their whole life training, becomes one of the best in the world, and purposefully attempts something, then it would be churlish to chalk it off to luck.

Ronaldo doesn't know if a free kick will go in, Tiger Woods didn't know if a chip shot will sink, and often the don't . But when they do, the reaction of most unbiased observers is not "that was lucky", but rather they made their luck by choosing the correct option and executing it well.

Ruiz didn't know he would concuss AJ with that punch. He knew it would be an effective shot however, instinctively selected it, and executed it perfectly. (It's also no surprise that it hurt Joshua, who is hardly George Chuvalo).

Ruiz also went on to exploit the situation, fight the right fight, and stop AJ. Just like Lennox Lewis did when he "luckily" cut Vitali with a punch. It's boxing.
Funnily Darts is quite an appropriate sport to pick comparators from considering Ruiz seems to model himself on a Darts Players physique! It's probably quite hard to find an exact reference as you really need to find a competent amateur, who then had a humdrum pro career who then got lucky and won the world title.

Ronaldo and Tiger Woods just like MVG or Taylor are the best of the best, all time greats. Ruiz is not in their class, he is at best a jobbing professional who had one great night, at worst a fat bum who got lucky. I don't believe AJ has a particular weak chin, he came back against Whyte and WK who are bigger hitters and better fighters than Ruiz could hope to be. Ruiz did a great job to exploit the situation but to pretend he is in the same league as AJ, Wilder or even Fury (whom most of you know I don't rate) is just wishful think by the majority of this board's contributors who are rabidly anti-AJ for reasons passing understanding considering his exemplary record as both a boxer and a representative of British sport.
 

DB Cooper

peel me a grape
May 17, 2013
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I was suggesting if you're saying AJ should be pulled for concussion when he never lost consciousness then Fury who has admitted he did also should have.
and I am calling bullshit on that comparison like any thinking boxing fan would.

Ruiz dropped Joshua in the 3rd round. If Joshua suffered concussion then, he had over 9 rounds still to contend with and we all saw the outcome. He got beat up and only the referee saved him from an absolute flogging.

Wilder dropped Fury in the final round, and as we saw Fury bounced up, continued to defend himself and then launched successful attacks on Wilder to finish the round and the fight.

Again, bullshit comparison. Chalk and cheese, but when it doesn't fit a troll like you's narrative, you will continue to argue chalk and cheese comparisons that nobody else with even a shred of objectivity agrees with.
 
Jul 6, 2019
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I don't claim it, it's very obvious that post R3 AJ was not the fighter we had seen in the previous 22 fights.

There would have to be much clearer evidence to pull a fighter out in a World Title fight especially at HW where any punch can cause issues. AJ recovered against both Whyte and WK (who are both superior fighters to Ruiz) so there would be no reason for RM to realise the severity of the concussion.

I was suggesting if you're saying AJ should be pulled for concussion when he never lost consciousness then Fury who has admitted he did also should have.



Funnily Darts is quite an appropriate sport to pick comparators from considering Ruiz seems to model himself on a Darts Players physique! It's probably quite hard to find an exact reference as you really need to find a competent amateur, who then had a humdrum pro career who then got lucky and won the world title.

Ronaldo and Tiger Woods just like MVG or Taylor are the best of the best, all time greats. Ruiz is not in their class, he is at best a jobbing professional who had one great night, at worst a fat bum who got lucky. I don't believe AJ has a particular weak chin, he came back against Whyte and WK who are bigger hitters and better fighters than Ruiz could hope to be. Ruiz did a great job to exploit the situation but to pretend he is in the same league as AJ, Wilder or even Fury (whom most of you know I don't rate) is just wishful think by the majority of this board's contributors who are rabidly anti-AJ for reasons passing understanding considering his exemplary record as both a boxer and a representative of British sport.
I just picked Ronaldo and Woods cause I reckoned most people would have heard of them. I don't want to assume other people's sporting knowledge.

I know you are either mental or trolling but Ruiz' career is not humdrum. He holds 3 belts, maybe should have gotten the nod over Parker, and at worst was a top 10 heavy before the AJ fight. I am very good at my job, but I am not top 10 in the world, and I doubt you, or most people on here are either.

I don't believe he is as good as Fury or Wilder. Wilder sparks him and he won't lay a glove on Fury. I don't believe he is as good as AJ either, but he might just have his number, we will find out soon.

Ps Joshua doesn't have a weak chin, he has an average one and poor recovery. (For world level, not general population).
 

DB Cooper

peel me a grape
May 17, 2013
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8,303
Funnily Darts is quite an appropriate sport to pick comparators from considering Ruiz seems to model himself on a Darts Players physique! It's probably quite hard to find an exact reference as you really need to find a competent amateur, who then had a humdrum pro career who then got lucky and won the world title.
Unmistakably and undeniably the work of a troll.

I will be more choosy when, and how often I waste my time with you from now on.
 
Reactions: Grant
Aug 4, 2012
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The Lack of respect he has for Ruiz (wont even say he is talented) is astonishing. He either has to admit he has very little knowledge of the sport (I'm not the best but i know a talented fighter when i see one) or he has to admit he is a troll.
 
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Royal Watcher

watching the Windsors
Nov 10, 2014
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The Lack of respect he has for Ruiz (wont even say he is talented) is astonishing. He either has to admit he has very little knowledge of the sport (I'm not the best but i know a talented fighter when i see one) or he has to admit he is a troll.
The latter. No doubt remains on that.
 
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Ar558a

Fighting the Fury loving Scum
Jun 2, 2019
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I love how you all think just calling me a troll because you disagree with me is an adequate argument. I believe the first requisite of being a top sportsmen is to actually be physically in shape to do that sport at an elite level. Ruiz clearly has talent but you can't be treated seriously unless you put in the effort to get in shape. I believe he isn't good enough to beat AJ under normal circumstances and if I'm wrong then I hope AJ does the right thing and retires immediately as he clearly would have lost what made him a great champ. Under those circumstances I hope Wilder beats him in the inevitable Unification as whatever people say about DW's questionable technique at least his training doesn't involve eating all the pies!
 
Jul 6, 2019
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I love how you all think just calling me a troll because you disagree with me is an adequate argument. I believe the first requisite of being a top sportsmen is to actually be physically in shape to do that sport at an elite level. Ruiz clearly has talent but you can't be treated seriously unless you put in the effort to get in shape. I believe he isn't good enough to beat AJ under normal circumstances and if I'm wrong then I hope AJ does the right thing and retires immediately as he clearly would have lost what made him a great champ. Under those circumstances I hope Wilder beats him in the inevitable Unification as whatever people say about DW's questionable technique at least his training doesn't involve eating all the pies!
To be fair I said you were either a troll or mental. I am still undecided.

Anyway, best of luck to you fella.
 

Royal Watcher

watching the Windsors
Nov 10, 2014
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I love how you all think just calling me a troll because you disagree with me is an adequate argument.
That you are a troll is not even in dispute. You let the cat out of the bag on that one when you came back with Fighting the Fury loving Scum written under your avatar.
 

Royal Watcher

watching the Windsors
Nov 10, 2014
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I believe the first requisite of being a top sportsmen is to actually be physically in shape to do that sport at an elite level.
You seem to think professional boxing is some kind of beauty contest and clearly have fallen head over heels for AJ's beach muscles.

If you knock the champion of your division the fuck out you are elite. Only a numpty like you would think otherwise.
 

Broxi

Literal Communist
Jul 24, 2012
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The number of factors which had to go right, both boxers body positions, angles of punches, blocks of preceding punches, movement and speed of both boxers, the variables could easily be in the hundreds if not thousands which if any one had been different would have very likely lead to a different outcome.
This is 100% true.

For 100% of every fight that's ever happened in all of time. In fact it is true for everything in life.

All of those variables, however, are a result of the performance of the fighters in the ring... the reason Joshua got clipped was that Ruiz throws shorter, faster and very powerful hooks while AJ is throwing longer, looping, slower, arguably more powerful hooks and in that set of conditions, Ruiz hooks are going to reach their target sooner. There was no luck involved in any of this.
 

Royal Watcher

watching the Windsors
Nov 10, 2014
1,732
787
The number of factors which had to go right, both boxers body positions, angles of punches, blocks of preceding punches, movement and speed of both boxers, the variables could easily be in the hundreds if not thousands which if any one had been different would have very likely lead to a different outcome. This is not to say that Ruiz didn't do a good job to put himself in the best position to be able to do this but this was a low percentage outcome, run this scenario ten times and it ends up with this outcome 1 or 2 times.
Ruiz has been fighting since he was about 5 years old. You don't think he has learned a bit over that time about body positioning, the angle of punches, blocking preceding punches, movement and speed?

You are trying to make it sound like AJ had a bad night on the roulette wheel at the casino.

Such an insufferable troll.
 
May 22, 2013
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He ate AJ’s best shots and smiled. Some people get all the luck.

Did I just hear someone say that when Peter Wright loses a game of darts he is beaten by a better player, but when he wins he is lucky? Have a spell mate.
 
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