Saint Jacinda Places Auckland In Lockdown

Jack

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Jul 29, 2012
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Same with masks. Every European country which has mandated masks has seen a rise in cases.

Could it be that masks lead to less social distancing and therefore more infections?
The severity of lockdowns has been question in several studies too. The Lancet said in one study: “Rapid border closures, full lockdowns, and wide-spread testing were not associated with COVID-19 mortality per million people.” and in another study, said: “The authors identified a negative association between the number of days to any lockdown and the total reported cases per million, where a longer time prior to implementation of any lockdown was associated with a lower number of detected cases per million.” People like to repeat things such as "we should have closed down all flights" yet that's another thing which has been proven to be ineffective and not have any meaningful benefit.

There's so much scientific, medical and fast based evidence that goes against the pro-lockdown opinions and yet there's still many who ignore all that because of what the mainstream media say...the same media which demonises small groups sat in a park whilst cheering on mass protests.
 

Ernest Shackleton

Moderate Assadist
Jun 8, 2013
16,609
6,607
The severity of lockdowns has been question in several studies too. The Lancet said in one study: “Rapid border closures, full lockdowns, and wide-spread testing were not associated with COVID-19 mortality per million people.” and in another study, said: “The authors identified a negative association between the number of days to any lockdown and the total reported cases per million, where a longer time prior to implementation of any lockdown was associated with a lower number of detected cases per million.” People like to repeat things such as "we should have closed down all flights" yet that's another thing which has been proven to be ineffective and not have any meaningful benefit.

There's so much scientific, medical and fast based evidence that goes against the pro-lockdown opinions and yet there's still many who ignore all that because of what the mainstream media say...the same media which demonises small groups sat in a park whilst cheering on mass protests.

I’d make this video compulsory viewing. Mind you the maths in the video is straightforward enough but would go over some people’s heads

 
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Wordup

Stranges creatures, women.
May 16, 2013
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Rotherham, South Yorkshire
There's so much scientific, medical and fast based evidence that goes against the pro-lockdown opinions and yet there's still many who ignore all that because of what the mainstream media say...the same media which demonises small groups sat in a park whilst cheering on mass protests.
Why do you have be constantly pressured into citing sources then if there's so much scientific, medical and fast based evidence?
 
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Jack

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Jul 29, 2012
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That’s just not true. Explain Argentina.
Exactly. There are plenty of examples we can look at right now which go against the accepted mentality, which is why the goalposts continuously move. The other week, I was having a debate about whether Covid could cause infertility, and the only reason people go down that argument is because they need to keep on finding new ways to justify lockdown measures even though Covid is pretty easy to understand. This idea that it's some mystical, unpredictable virus that could affect us in many different, bizarre ways in decades to come is just a ridiculous theory, that has such a small chance of becoming true that we can't prioritise it over the things we know are tangibly having a detrimental impact today.


These concerns shouldn't be discounted but the chances are so remote, it's not a valid argument, it's just more clutching at straws to validate their stance which is becoming increasingly unjustifiable. To use the analogy again, this would be like stopping all people from having cars because some people have narcoplepsy. Something being true doesn't make it a valid argument.
 
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Jack

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In a strange and another example of the constant goalpost moving, Fauci has said that if we get a vaccine, people can start going to theatres...by 2021.

"I think it’s going to be a combination of a vaccine that has been around for almost a year and good public-health measures," Fauci said. "I would think by the time we get to the end of 2021 — maybe even the middle of 2021."


What the fuck is that nonsense? As soon as a vaccine comes, there should be a week or two week period where the vulnerable are given it en masse and then after that, each country opens up 100% of society. There would be absolutely no justification for any sort of lockdown restrictions in that scenario. There's little justification for a mass lockdown now but after a vaccine?! This is just madness.

Fauci is an interesting character. I find it interesting that he subtly recommends Vitamin D - and uses it himself as a preventative measure - yet doesn't use his major profile to actively encourage Americans to use it, something which is very, very likely to reduce deaths, especially in black/Hispanic people. Everyone should be taking Vitamin D at the moment.
 
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dominus

Going the full Gonzo
Sep 16, 2013
904
402
In a strange and another example of the constant goalpost moving, Fauci has said that if we get a vaccine, people can start going to theatres...by 2021.

"I think it’s going to be a combination of a vaccine that has been around for almost a year and good public-health measures," Fauci said. "I would think by the time we get to the end of 2021 — maybe even the middle of 2021."


What the fuck is that nonsense? As soon as a vaccine comes, there should be a week or two week period where the vulnerable are given it en masse and then after that, each country opens up 100% of society. There would be absolutely no justification for any sort of lockdown restrictions in that scenario. There's little justification for a mass lockdown now but after a vaccine?! This is just madness.

Fauci is an interesting character. I find it interesting that he subtly recommends Vitamin D - and uses it himself as a preventative measure - yet doesn't use his major profile to actively encourage Americans to use it, something which is very, very likely to reduce deaths, especially in black/Hispanic people. Everyone should be taking Vitamin D at the moment.
Since when do only the vulnerable need to be vaccinated?

Do you have any idea how long it will take for all of the vaccinations to be completed?
 
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Jack

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Since when do only the vulnerable need to be vaccinated?

Do you have any idea how long it will take for all of the vaccinations to be completed?
I didn't say that only the vulnerable need to be vaccinated. It should be open to every member of society. However, society should reopen fully when the vulnerable are protected; get the elderly and people with health issues out of the way, make sure health professionals have it, and then fully reopen. After that, steadily work through the rest of society but there'd be no rush to do them, as the IFR for most people is tiny.
 

dominus

Going the full Gonzo
Sep 16, 2013
904
402
I didn't say that only the vulnerable need to be vaccinated. It should be open to every member of society. However, society should reopen fully when the vulnerable are protected; get the elderly and people with health issues out of the way, make sure health professionals have it, and then fully reopen. After that, steadily work through the rest of society but there'd be no rush to do them, as the IFR for most people is tiny.
The vaccinations will be made available to everybody. Until everybody has had the opportunity to get one things won't change and it won't happen in a weekend. It will more likely take months.
 

Jack

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"It is increasingly the reality for hundreds of millions of people around the planet. As the global economy absorbs the most punishing reversal of fortunes since the Great Depression, hunger is on the rise. Those confronting potentially life-threatening levels of so-called food insecurity in the developing world are expected to nearly double this year to 265 million, according to the United Nations World Food Program.

Worldwide, the number of children younger than 5 caught in a state of so-called wasting — their weight so far below normal that they face an elevated risk of death, along with long-term health and developmental problems — is likely to grow by nearly seven million this year, or 14 percent, according to a recent paper published in The Lancet, a medical journal."


A tragic insight into what the death toll from unnecesary lockdown measures will look like. Interestingly, even the very pro-lockdown r/Coronavirus was calling it out for what it is, so it's good to see that the consensus opinions has changed.
 
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Jack

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The vaccinations will be made available to everybody. Until everybody has had the opportunity to get one things won't change and it won't happen in a weekend. It will more likely take months.
I think that's why it's important to get the vulnerable out of the way first. There's no point in looking at a country like Britain with 65m people or America with 350m and trying to apply the vaccine equally. Just target the small numbers of the most vulnerable people first and then after that week or two week period of intense vaccinations, it should be offered generally to the rest of society. The virus would be killing a miniscule amount of people as soon as the vulnerable are protected though, so that's all that really matters.
 
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dominus

Going the full Gonzo
Sep 16, 2013
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402
I think that's why it's important to get the vulnerable out of the way first. There's no point in looking at a country like Britain with 65m people or America with 350m and trying to apply the vaccine equally. Just target the small numbers of the most vulnerable people first and then after that week or two week period of intense vaccinations, it should be offered generally to the rest of society. The virus would be killing a miniscule amount of people as soon as the vulnerable are protected though, so that's all that really matters.
Absolutely get the vulnerable out of the way first but that isn't the point where things will revert back to normal. That won't happen until everybody has had the opportunity to be immunized and that will take time.

Jumping the gun will only cost more lives and this virus has cost way too many lives worldwide already.
 
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Jack

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An interesting look at how flu has been killing more people in the UK than Covid for the past few months.
 
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Jack

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“A slew of studies from around the world has reported a disturbing trend: since the coronavirus pandemic started, there has been a significant rise in the proportion of pregnancies ending in stillbirths, in which babies die in the womb. Researchers say that in some countries, pregnant women have received less care than they need because of lockdown restrictions and disruptions to health care. As a result, complications that can lead to stillbirths were probably missed, they say.

“What we’ve done is cause an unintended spike in stillbirth while trying to protect [pregnant women] from COVID-19,” says Jane Warland, a specialist in midwifery at the University of South Australia in Adelaide.
The largest study to report a rise in the stillbirth rate, based on data from more than 20,000 women who gave birth in 9 hospitals across Nepal, was published in The Lancet Global Health on 10 August1. It reported that stillbirths increased from 14 per 1,000 births before the country went into lockdown to stop the spread of the coronavirus in late March, to 21 per 1,000 births by the end of May — a rise of 50%. The sharpest rise was observed during the first four weeks of the lockdown, under which people were allowed to leave their homes only to buy food and receive essential care.”