So, about those statues

Jun 3, 2013
1,395
1,053
There's serious debate in the US about the removal of statues and the renaming of military bases which commemorate confederate leaders.

Even in England they are tearing down statues celebrating the life of men who were slave traders, though there is some opposition to this.

For what its worth my opinion on this is that its ludicrous there are monuments and military bases commemorating men who took up arms against the US government in defence of slavery, they were enemies of the state.

Germany doesn't have statues of Hitler or any high ranking Nazi's so why does the US have monuments of confederate general's?

In 66 the IRA blew up Nelson's Pillar, a statue celebrating Horatio Nelson in Dublin City. It had no reason being there and didn't represent Irish history or values and was a reminder of British imperialism that we hate so we got rid of it.

What do you think about the removing of monuments and renaming of places or things which represent an ugly past?
 
Jan 13, 2020
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Don't they teach US history in school? Who didn't have world history?

We have a past, you don't try to pretend we didn't

We don't do anything in some attempt to fake it. What happened happened, we need to know the mistakes if we plan on fixing things.

History tells us things like this....

Fred Swaniker, the founder of the African Leadership Academy, said: "I'm not sure whether an apology is needed, but it would be worth looking at and acknowledging the role Africa did play in the slave trade. Someone had to find the slaves and bring them before the Europeans."

The shameful history of some traditional leaders remains an awkward subject on which many politicians prefer to maintain silence. One exception was in 1998 when Yoweri Museveni, the president of Uganda, told an audience including Bill Clinton: "African chiefs were the ones waging war on each other and capturing their own people and selling them. If anyone should apologise it should be the African chiefs. We still have those traitors here even today."

The part African Chiefs played in all this would be lost if not for history.

The trip over here weeded out the weaklings, they were simply dumped over board, so those who did make it were the strong. And the story goes on an on, we know the story because of history, we need history. Yes Jimmy the Greek was right.

We leave things as they are, who is being fooled, yep......nobody.

50 years from now a kid asks his dad......what was the Civil War, dad answers.....never happened.

Tear down the Pyramids because they were built by slave labor? People need to grab a book and learn some history, check out the Kentucky Derby. read up on Isacc Murphy. plantation fighter Tom Molineaux.

We are letting some white trash cop make way too big an impact on our lifes.
 
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Haggis

CHB World Championship People's Champion
May 16, 2013
39,394
16,239
As for the U.S., just get rid of the Confederate ones, if it's meant to celebrate and not educate, then they get tossed in the river too
The Confederates were all traitors who took up arms to attempt to destroy the United States. They were put back in their place and haven't stopped crying about it for 160 years. Why are there still statues commemorating the leaders of this failed insurrection?

:hat
 
Jul 6, 2019
4,838
5,023
I have a few thoughts on this.

1. It's fairly common for statues, monuments, books, etc to be destroyed. It usually happens after a shift in power, where the new group replace the old order's monuments to weaken their hold and strengthen their own.

It also happens organically when the existing leadership decide they no longer want or need something. Usually because it is in the way of something they do want. Like a supermarket, bypass, or monument that better reflects their current situation.

It would be better for the incumbent regimes if they made this look like the latter rather than the former.

2. It's possible to remember history without venerating it.

We don't want to destroy artefacts of great beauty or significance like the pyramids or the colleseum. We can keep things like that, but include historical context and allow people to make up their own minds.

For lesser works, like the statue of the slaver in Bristol, move them to a museum, make them part of a display about slavery. Educate people.

Those who don't understand history are doomed to repeat it. We don't keep auschwitz as a celebration of the nazis, we keep it as a warning, and a rebuke.

3. A greater understanding and engagement with art and history is a good thing.

I pass statues every day and rarely stop to think about who they are, or what they say about my society. Most people do. We might all have a greater interest now.
 
May 26, 2018
5,741
2,558
Sadiq Khan has decided to board up the Cenotaph and Churchill statues amongst others.
I bet it really pained him to give that instruction...
 
Jun 4, 2013
3,651
1,789
Port de Wolvo
Dreadful statement from Khan. Even Guardian journalists are calling him out.

Khan is a moron and I would expect this type lunacy from him. .

These knuckle-dragger far right loons will stick out like a sore thumb at these rallies FFS I can't see them controlling their stupidly at these protests.

It's cleary brainwashed Far Left crackpots smashing stuff up, I mean he's giving the far right too much credit for being that intelligent to be uncover as a protester at a left wing rally. :lol:
 
Reactions: kf3 and Dazl1212
Jun 7, 2012
6,318
1,141
Put them in museums with unedited facts. We have some real strange things on show on the UK but I do feel the history we are taught at school is somewhat filtered.

Another statue that needs removing, Is the naked boy and man outside the BBC, a building that had kids raped inside. The statue was also by a guy who raped his kids. Just bizzarre
 
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NSFW

Freedom Fighter
May 14, 2013
23,546
12,251
Castle Duckula.
Put them in museums with unedited facts. We have some real strange things on show on the UK but I do feel the history we are taught at school is somewhat filtered.

Another statue that needs removing, Is the naked boy and man outside the BBC, a building that had kids raped inside. The statue was also by a guy who raped his kids. Just bizzarre

Which one is this?
 
May 23, 2013
8,449
1,031
tahiti
I have a few thoughts on this.

1. It's fairly common for statues, monuments, books, etc to be destroyed. It usually happens after a shift in power, where the new group replace the old order's monuments to weaken their hold and strengthen their own.

It also happens organically when the existing leadership decide they no longer want or need something. Usually because it is in the way of something they do want. Like a supermarket, bypass, or monument that better reflects their current situation.

It would be better for the incumbent regimes if they made this look like the latter rather than the former.

2. It's possible to remember history without venerating it.

We don't want to destroy artefacts of great beauty or significance like the pyramids or the colleseum. We can keep things like that, but include historical context and allow people to make up their own minds.

For lesser works, like the statue of the slaver in Bristol, move them to a museum, make them part of a display about slavery. Educate people.

Those who don't understand history are doomed to repeat it. We don't keep auschwitz as a celebration of the nazis, we keep it as a warning, and a rebuke.

3. A greater understanding and engagement with art and history is a good thing.

I pass statues every day and rarely stop to think about who they are, or what they say about my society. Most people do. We might all have a greater interest now.
few things mate

first of : a person should be judged by the standards and morals of his time.
For example : Columbus did kill Indians etc but in those days everybody killed everybody. For his time he was a man with vision who dared to sail into the unknown.

second : remember the taliban destroying ancient Hindu ruins/buildings ? People where outraged.

statues should be left alone those man did certain stuff that entitled them to a statue just leave it alone
 
Reactions: Duo and HumansSuck
Jun 3, 2013
1,395
1,053
Don't they teach US history in school? Who didn't have world history?

We have a past, you don't try to pretend we didn't

We don't do anything in some attempt to fake it. What happened happened, we need to know the mistakes if we plan on fixing things.

History tells us things like this....

Fred Swaniker, the founder of the African Leadership Academy, said: "I'm not sure whether an apology is needed, but it would be worth looking at and acknowledging the role Africa did play in the slave trade. Someone had to find the slaves and bring them before the Europeans."

The shameful history of some traditional leaders remains an awkward subject on which many politicians prefer to maintain silence. One exception was in 1998 when Yoweri Museveni, the president of Uganda, told an audience including Bill Clinton: "African chiefs were the ones waging war on each other and capturing their own people and selling them. If anyone should apologise it should be the African chiefs. We still have those traitors here even today."

The part African Chiefs played in all this would be lost if not for history.

The trip over here weeded out the weaklings, they were simply dumped over board, so those who did make it were the strong. And the story goes on an on, we know the story because of history, we need history. Yes Jimmy the Greek was right.

We leave things as they are, who is being fooled, yep......nobody.

50 years from now a kid asks his dad......what was the Civil War, dad answers.....never happened.

Tear down the Pyramids because they were built by slave labor? People need to grab a book and learn some history, check out the Kentucky Derby. read up on Isacc Murphy. plantation fighter Tom Molineaux.

We are letting some white trash cop make way too big an impact on our lifes.
Yep you teach history in schools, therefore no need for the statues.

You erect monuments and name things after people or things you're proud of and want to celebrate.

Or is this arseways in America like everything else?
 
Jul 6, 2019
4,838
5,023
few things mate

first of : a person should be judged by the standards and morals of his time.
For example : Columbus did kill Indians etc but in those days everybody killed everybody. For his time he was a man with vision who dared to sail into the unknown.

second : remember the taliban destroying ancient Hindu ruins/buildings ? People where outraged.

statues should be left alone those man did certain stuff that entitled them to a statue just leave it alone
I get your point. It's dangerous to bow down to the current political climate and demolish history. It's also dangerous to allow mob rule.


I agree for someone like Colombus. Keep it up, just add some context.

For some random slave trader though it's fine to move them to a museum. They are less historically significant.
 
Nov 4, 2015
3,509
1,472
There's serious debate in the US about the removal of statues and the renaming of military bases which commemorate confederate leaders.

Even in England they are tearing down statues celebrating the life of men who were slave traders, though there is some opposition to this.

For what its worth my opinion on this is that its ludicrous there are monuments and military bases commemorating men who took up arms against the US government in defence of slavery, they were enemies of the state.

Germany doesn't have statues of Hitler or any high ranking Nazi's so why does the US have monuments of confederate general's?

In 66 the IRA blew up Nelson's Pillar, a statue celebrating Horatio Nelson in Dublin City. It had no reason being there and didn't represent Irish history or values and was a reminder of British imperialism that we hate so we got rid of it.

What do you think about the removing of monuments and renaming of places or things which represent an ugly past?
The victors make that decision.

What people dislike is the radicals of this generation being so antithetical to American values tearing down any American history at this point. Nobody really trusts their intentions.
 
Jan 13, 2020
1,415
253
51
Yep you teach history in schools, therefore no need for the statues.

You erect monuments and name things after people or things you're proud of and want to celebrate.

Or is this arseways in America like everything else?
You don't mess with history, who is so damn fragile and sensitive they are bothered by things that happened centuries ago? If a person is that uptight they need help.

We change nothing, we need things how they really are playing pretend is stupid. We should all be aware of our history, it's not fair to hide it from those who come later.

Trump is going to Tulsa so why must we know about that 1921 massacre of blacks that happened there? I bet a lot of people knew nothing about that.

Tear down history but tell us about it......huh?????
 
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Reactions: Duo