Strange case of Wilders skinny legs

  • Hi all, please be aware that CHB will NOT be closing on the 31st July, arrangements are being made to take over the website. Further details will be confirmed in due course. The new owners will be revealed/reveal themselves in the near future at a more appropriate time. TL;DR CHB IS SAVED!
May 8, 2016
3,998
3,502
Hell, back in the mid 60's when I got into amateur boxing my coach would often preach about punching through a target. He'd say, "If punching at the chin, envision your fist stopping at the back of his head and if going for a liver shot, imagine your fist hitting his backbone."

Another thing he liked us to practice was to slightly twist our wrist when jabbing upon impact. His logic was the leather of the gloves would pull more on the skin and could open cuts. Now this was a time before headgear was used in amateur fights and only used in sparring in the gym and it did work. I once cut a guys forehead with a jab that I twisted on impact.
Thanks for the post I love hearing gym stories and insights like that from decades past.

Unfortunately as the old school neighbourhood gyms have closed. And the old school coaches have died these insights and tricks have died with them. These days its alot of fitness guys masquerading as coaches.

Another old school trick for example would be to constantly jab the opponents shoulder instead of the head. The jab keeps the opponent of balance and makes his shoulder tired and sore lessning the impact of his punches when he throws them.
 
Last edited:
Reactions: gumbo2176
Jun 6, 2013
12,856
1,672
Another thing he liked us to practice was to slightly twist our wrist when jabbing upon impact. His logic was the leather of the gloves would pull more on the skin and could open cuts. Now this was a time before headgear was used in amateur fights and only used in sparring in the gym and it did work. I once cut a guys forehead with a jab that I twisted on impact.

I never heard that as the reason, but turning the wrist just BEFORE impact has always, and is still, the standard method taught by any competent trainer.

The main reason is that it creates a more soild kinetic chain. (All the way back to the feet.) The bones just line up better, which has been shown many times in physiological tests. You don't turn right away because that would lower arm speed.

Of course, old school trainers didn't know this specifically. They just knew what worked. You can even feel the difference in the back of your shoulder, if you hit the heavy bag both ways.

If this also helps to rip skin, well that's a nice bonus. - but since you turn just BEFORE impact, I'm not so sure. Can you twist even more after landing? I guess, but after I landed, my main focus was on pulling my body back to safety, so I dunno......

Interesting idea, though.
 
Jul 10, 2021
36
11
22
They've held up in two fights already so I don't see any reason why not in the trilogy. There won't be anyone to throw the towel in this time so Fury's going to have to nail him to the canvas. I'm picking Fury whatever his weight and tactics are, no doubt leaning all over the smaller man will have a positive impact for him but first he has to get in range and initiate the clinch, the lighter man might use his legs to stay mobile and off the ropes this time so it's not just about what Fury will do. There was an 80lb difference in the first fight and Wilder heard the final bell, Fury almost didn't.
They "held up in two fights"?

Eh

Huh

Wah

I mean in the first fight it was just a stick and move boxing match and in the second fight they didn't hold up at all, Wilder was a dead man walking after 3 rounds and the only reason it went as long as it did is that Fury has zero concussive power.
 
Aug 19, 2020
864
438
United Kingdom
They "held up in two fights"?

Eh

Huh

Wah

I mean in the first fight it was just a stick and move boxing match and in the second fight they didn't hold up at all, Wilder was a dead man walking after 3 rounds and the only reason it went as long as it did is that Fury has zero concussive power.
Yeah but that's not because Fury was leaning on him, it's because of the costume remember
 

Duo

Bosomus Maximus
Jun 14, 2012
7,967
4,733
Something about calves. You either have them or you don't. I remember they had a promotion with measurements for Wilder/Stiverne. Stiverne's arms were bigger than Wilder's legs. Not even calves... entire fucking thigh, IIRC!
Right. Legs, especially calves, tend to be genetically inherited traits. I inherited large calves from my mother and father.

On Fox News, back in the days when Roger Ailes was the shoe and leg fetish Chairman and CEO responsible for their females being required to show their legs off (most notably former Miss America Gretchen Carlson and former Victoria's Secret model Kimberly Guilfoyle), Sandra Smith's legs were rather nondescript by Fox network standards, and she was an NCAA track champion in college at LSU. (The only former NCAA champion who's a news anchor on any of the networks, she ran the 1,500 meters, 3,000 meters, steeplechase, and her time in the mile at 5:30 remains an LSU women's record 20 years later. Having said that, it's also possible Sandra Smith likes the fact her legs never displayed any visible musculature.)

Even when posing for the "Louisiana Bikini Team" when she was setting these running records and winning championships around 2002, her legs were out of the way as the camera focused on her face and torso. She did amazing things with those legs, but wouldn't have turned any heads with how those legs looked at the time. There are pictures of her competing on the track, and I've seen vastly superior legs on stridently sedentary girls who are junk food addicts. One of those girls who I grew up with has suffered from fibromyalgia for decades now, and even at this time, she has among the five most well muscled pairs of legs of any girl I've ever known. Ironically, she's always HATED muscles on guys, let alone on herself. (A bodybuilder we both knew walked into the restaurant where the two of us were eating lunch together at work, and she completely lost her appetite.) I'll also rate my own girlfriend's curvy calves and thighs over those of anybody on Fox, and over every female bodybuilder I've ever known. (She's indifferent to her curvy calves, about the one body part which doesn't matter to her in any way, even though I like licking them...)

Frequently, if you have skinny calves and want to build them up, steroids will be necessary (or the toxic calf implants former WCW wrestling star Buff Bagwell so foolishly got, one of which disastrously burst on him).

My younger brother has lifted weights and run marathons for decades, yet to his eternal frustration, his calves remain broomsticks despite being much stronger than mine. (His wife has also worked out obsessively since the mid 1980's, which completely dissolved her formerly nice boobs and butt, while utterly failing to reduce her cankles in any way. I think the difference between her calves and ankles is two or three inches, while my sedentary girlfriend's calves are at least 11 inches larger than her ankles when her calves are completely relaxed. She has to buy boots for wide calves. My girlfriend showed me a picture of her mother in a skirt which proves she inherited her calf size. Genetics are genetics.)


The best female basketball players I went to high school and college with both had such severe cellulite that it should've been banned by the Geneva Convention.
 
Reactions: Mexi-Box
May 8, 2016
3,998
3,502
Right. Legs, especially calves, tend to be genetically inherited traits. I inherited large calves from my mother and father.

On Fox News, back in the days when Roger Ailes was the shoe and leg fetish Chairman and CEO responsible for their females being required to show their legs off (most notably former Miss America Gretchen Carlson and former Victoria's Secret model Kimberly Guilfoyle), Sandra Smith's legs were rather nondescript by Fox network standards, and she was an NCAA track champion in college at LSU. (The only former NCAA champion who's a news anchor on any of the networks, she ran the 1,500 meters, 3,000 meters, steeplechase, and her time in the mile at 5:30 remains an LSU women's record 20 years later. Having said that, it's also possible Sandra Smith likes the fact her legs never displayed any visible musculature.)

Even when posing for the "Louisiana Bikini Team" when she was setting these running records and winning championships around 2002, her legs were out of the way as the camera focused on her face and torso. She did amazing things with those legs, but wouldn't have turned any heads with how those legs looked at the time. There are pictures of her competing on the track, and I've seen vastly superior legs on stridently sedentary girls who are junk food addicts. One of those girls who I grew up with has suffered from fibromyalgia for decades now, and even at this time, she has among the five most well muscled pairs of legs of any girl I've ever known. Ironically, she's always HATED muscles on guys, let alone on herself. (A bodybuilder we both knew walked into the restaurant where the two of us were eating lunch together at work, and she completely lost her appetite.) I'll also rate my own girlfriend's curvy calves and thighs over those of anybody on Fox, and over every female bodybuilder I've ever known. (She's indifferent to her curvy calves, about the one body part which doesn't matter to her in any way, even though I like licking them...)

Frequently, if you have skinny calves and want to build them up, steroids will be necessary (or the toxic calf implants former WCW wrestling star Buff Bagwell so foolishly got, one of which disastrously burst on him).

My younger brother has lifted weights and run marathons for decades, yet to his eternal frustration, his calves remain broomsticks despite being much stronger than mine. (His wife has also worked out obsessively since the mid 1980's, which completely dissolved her formerly nice boobs and butt, while utterly failing to reduce her cankles in any way. I think the difference between her calves and ankles is two or three inches, while my sedentary girlfriend's calves are at least 11 inches larger than her ankles when her calves are completely relaxed. She has to buy boots for wide calves. My girlfriend showed me a picture of her mother in a skirt which proves she inherited her calf size. Genetics are genetics.)


The best female basketball players I went to high school and college with both had such severe cellulite that it should've been banned by the Geneva Convention.

The boxer would need the endurance of a marathon runner and power and strength of a sprinter. Both types of training are interspersed in to routine of a boxer.

The question from the perspective of this thread would be who is more likely to run a greater distance whilst carrying 40lb and more of weight. The sprinter or the runner.
 
May 8, 2016
3,998
3,502
They "held up in two fights"?

Eh

Huh

Wah

I mean in the first fight it was just a stick and move boxing match and in the second fight they didn't hold up at all, Wilder was a dead man walking after 3 rounds and the only reason it went as long as it did is that Fury has zero concussive power.
True also Fury in the first fight had Ben Davison a young up and coming trainer.

In the second he had the Kronk Gym veteran Sugar Hill Steward who learnt the trade from two great coaches Henry Hill and Manny Steward. And he had Fury using his physicality and size advantage as much as possible. To bully Wilder.
 
Jun 4, 2013
27,547
8,876

The boxer would need the endurance of a marathon runner and power and strength of a sprinter. Both types of training are interspersed in to routine of a boxer.

The question from the perspective of this thread would be who is more likely to run a greater distance whilst carrying 40lb and more of weight. The sprinter or the runner.
Those Olympic dudes are all roided, though.
 
Reactions: Duo
Jun 6, 2013
12,856
1,672
Fury in the first fight had Ben Davison a young up and coming trainer.

In the second he had the Kronk Gym veteran Sugar Hill Steward ......



Those two guys outa' team up. Davidson could specialize on defense, and Steward on offense.

Then add-in some serious H&F expert, and that would be the training "dream team."
 
Last edited:
May 8, 2016
3,998
3,502
Those two guys outa' team up. Davidson could specialize on defense, and Steward on offense.

Then add-in some serious H&F expert, and that would be the training "dream team."
Well that does not always work egos get in the way. Each individual wants the limelight.

Ben Davison is nicknamed "Boxercise Ben" by those in the know. He is seen by John Fury , Tyson Furys dad as a hanger-on who was just in the right place and at the right time and got his gig without fully having learned his trade thats why he was replaced. Essentialy he got his opportunities because he was friends with BJ Saunders and Tyson Fury and has been very good at publicising himself. A bit like Malik Scott has got his gig as Wilders trainer and Johnathan Banks got his gig as Wladimir Klischkos trainer.

There is an entire thread on Davison.

What-ever the case my personal view is Ben Davison found a short cut to the top is still learning on the job and will improve with age and experience.

Converseley what people dont know is that the Kronk Gym was not all about Manny Steward. The group of assistant coaches were great trainers in their own right, the legendary defensive and technical coach Bill Miller who mentored James Toney was a longtime assistant coach at the Kronk. The legendary Luther Burgess another great defensive coach was an assistant. Burgess himself fought in the 1940's and was the very first professional fighter to be trained by the great Eddie Futch.

The point is Sugar Hill Steward is well capable of teaching pure defense he served a very long apprenticeship. Under some of the best veteran coaches in the business. And he has probably forgotten more of what he was taught then. Ben Davison will ever learn. Thats why Steward was hired by Team Fury.

One thing Ben Davison is probably better at then most other trainers. Is as a Video analyst he painstakingly goes through videos of opponents frame by frame and
Looking at their flaws and strengths. As analyst he is one of the best.
 
Last edited:
Jun 6, 2013
12,856
1,672
Ben Davison is nicknamed "Boxercise Ben" by those in the know. He is seen by John Fury , Tyson Furys dad as a hanger-on who was just in the right place and at the right time and got his gig without fully having learned his trade thats why he was replaced. Essentialy he got his opportunities because he was friends with BJ Saunders and Tyson Fury and has been very good at publicising himself. A bit like Malik Scott has got his gig as Wilders trainer and Johnathan Banks got his gig as Wladimir Klischkos trainer.

There is an entire thread on Davison.

I never heard this. Thanks.

But then who developed that extreme defensive movement that Fury used in the first Wilder fight?
While I'll always be angry at how often he was allowed to illegally duck below Wilder's beltline, there's no denying that the overall strategy was extremely effective.
I don't think Fury ever fought quite that way in past fights. So, who get the credit?
 
May 8, 2016
3,998
3,502
I never heard this. Thanks.

But then who developed that extreme defensive movement that Fury used in the first Wilder fight?
While I'll always be angry at how often he was allowed to illegally duck below Wilder's beltline, there's no denying that the overall strategy was extremely effective.
I don't think Fury ever fought quite that way in past fights. So, who get the credit?
Who build or layed the foundations with Fury..? the person given credit for that is his uncle and former trainer Peter Fury.

As far as the tactics for first Wilder fight that was all Ben Davison.

The foundations of Furys defensive skills were all ready there well before Ben came on the scene.