~ TENNIS - Australian Open Men's Final - Novak defies Nex Gen with clinical win over Medvedev ~

steviebruno

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Will Medvedev end the Big Four Era tomorrow?

How'bout this: in recent hours Daniil, 3-2 ahead of Novak and on a 20-0 win streak became the slight betting favorite vs. a GOAT candidate who never lost an Aussie final. The Tennis Temple fanxpert crowd also favors Medvedev 60/40, so my question is: will tomorrow be the symbolic passing of the torch, or does the Big Four have one more stance left in them to deny the future?

Thiem winning the USO was significant but wasn't consolidated vs. one of the four in the final, and this could be the difference. Daniil is the new Novak anyway: exceptional court intelligence, superb use of angles and transitioning shots, penetrating backhand, smart stinging serves over power and rock solid resolve under pressure or a hostile environment. Literally no one except of some of us predicted Novak back in the 2007 to upend the Fedal era, or Medvedev (and not Thiem, Tsitsipas, Kyrgios, Zverev, Shapovalov or Dimitrov) to end Djokovic's historic reign. Well, I predicted both back when neither was obvious, and I'm picking Daniil in 4 tomorrow to legitimize his time. Not only does he possess the tools for domination, growing up on Djokovic I've noticed how well ahead he knows Novak's each move, kinda like Osaka utterly being inside her idol's head, surpassing the teacher etc.

Course Tsitsipas would be the new Federer: offensive big game with incredible touch, potent one-handed BH and a winner-crunghing forehand. Also a big serve, some lady-friendly looks and an easy style on and off court. Media makes this connection too. However, Medvedev is a stylistic nightmare for him as much as Djokovic has been for Federer at slams for over half a decade, but he'll win a slam, probably Wimbledon first.

Thiem's mind-blowing athleticism, incredible clay court game with a potent top spin if he chooses, excellent tactical ability and infinite stamina makes him the new Nadal, even if not perfect style match, I know. Plenty of Roland Garros trophies in him, but with the ability to speed up his game, probably other slams too. He's perhaps the most compatible to win one of each, Daniil is a very prototype hard-courter right now and I don't fancy Tsitsi on clay. And I guess that leaves poor Zverev for poor Murray - not in style, but in possessing the talent but failing year after year - I do hope he gets a breakthrough, though his domestic violence accusations are a no-go.

What do you think? Is tomorrow the day and are these boyos the New Four?
Interesting post.

Medvedev, Tsitsipas, Theim, and Zverev do seem to be set up as the next big four. Will they dominate the way Fed/Nadal/Djokovic have, hoarding all of the trophies for themselves? Probably not, and for a very simple reason.

They just aren't as good.

Tsitsipas may have the looks, the one-hander, and the forehand... but he's far more rugged in terms of style. He lacks Fed's elegant/efficient movement, can't really restructure rallies with the slice, and hasn't quite figured out the geometry of the tennis court yet. He doesn't seem as if he has a plan yet, other than to go out and play his hardest... he still looks somewhat raw and probably has the most upside.

Theim was thought to have infinite stamina, but he's now run out of gas in each of the last two slams. He's had the opportunity to solidify his US Open win -where he didn't face any of the big three- but has failed to even come close. His maiden GS win should now be under serious scrutiny. He's probably too nice a guy to transition to the type of competitor that Rafa is. Rafa can be downright ornery and intimidating on the court, and Theim just doesn't have that in him.

Medvedev/Djokovic is the most apt comparison... which means that Danill will probably win twice as many slams as anyone else in his group. He's looking like the leader of the pack, in terms of style, personality, and consistency. He doesn't have to red line to be effective, which is what you look for in terms of ability to dominate. Can you win without your A game, knowing that it's not always possible to play your absolute best? He seems best equipped to do so.
 
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BigBone

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Interesting post.

Medvedev, Tsitsipas, Theim, and Zverev do seem to be set up as the next big four. Will they dominate the way Fed/Nadal/Djokovic have, hoarding all of the trophies for themselves? Probably not, and for a very simple reason.

They just aren't as good.

Tsitsipas may have the looks, the one-hander, and the forehand... but he's far more rugged in terms of style. He lacks Fed's elegant/efficient movement, can't really restructure rallies with the slice, and hasn't quite figured out the geometry of the tennis court yet. He doesn't seem as if he has a plan yet, other than to go out and play his hardest... he still looks somewhat raw and probably has the most upside.

Theim was thought to have infinite stamina, but he's now run out of gas in each of the last two slams. He's had the opportunity to solidify his US Open win -where he didn't face any of the big three- but has failed to even come close. His maiden GS win should now be under serious scrutiny. He's probably too nice a guy to transition to the type of competitor that Rafa is. Rafa can be downright ornery and intimidating on the court, and Theim just doesn't have that in him.

Medvedev/Djokovic is the most apt comparison... which means that Danill will probably win twice as many slams as anyone else in his group. He's looking like the leader of the pack, in terms of style, personality, and consistency. He doesn't have to red line to be effective, which is what you look for in terms of ability to dominate. Can you win without your A game, knowing that it's not always possible to play your absolute best? He seems best equipped to do so.
True that direct style comparisons don't work, but plenty of similarities are noticeable and media's already toying with the New Four / New Three narrative. That's cool, bit complimentary to the less talented youth as you pointed out but hey: if someone have to win the slams post-Big Four, these will likely split plenty between them as I see a talent gap after them.

Your prediction for the final?
 

steviebruno

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True that direct style comparisons don't work, but plenty of similarities are noticeable and media's already toying with the New Four / New Three narrative. That's cool, bit complimentary to the less talented youth as you pointed out but hey: if someone have to win the slams post-Big Four, these will likely split plenty between them as I see a talent gap after them.

Your prediction for the final?
Medvedev in four very close sets. He'll take Novak to a place that he'll be somewhat aggravated to be against anyone not named Federer or Nadal... Daniil is just a kid to him and shouldn't push him... and that little hint of aggravation will be just enough (with the added pressure of closing the gap between he and Rafa with another FO looming), to cause his level to dip just a bit when it matters most.

...But I've been wrong in this thread before, to sometimes embarrassing degrees. :smile
 

BigBone

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Medvedev in four very close sets. He'll take Novak to a place that he'll be somewhat aggravated to be against anyone not named Federer or Nadal... Daniil is just a kid to him and shouldn't push him... and that little hint of aggravation will be just enough (with the added pressure of closing the gap between he and Rafa with another FO looming), to cause his level to dip just a bit when it matters most.

...But I've been wrong in this thread before, to sometimes embarrassing degrees. :smile
That's OK brah, it's how you carry yourself after coming up short is the true judge of character. And nah Daniil is not "just a kid" to Novak, he literally called Medvedev "the (best) tennis player on tour to beat" twice on Thursday "on an incredible 20 match winning streak incl. beating me in London". Plenty of respect but then comes the media narrative: this reporter asked Medvedev yesterday what he thinks of Djokovic stating "the youngsters are yet to prove their worth and I'm not gonna hand over my title to them" - Daniil, are you gonna prove this guy wrong on Sunday? And that seeming arrogant Djokovic message caught Daniil by surprise.

Actual context? Wilander asked Djokovic how he's feels about these bigger, younger, fresher and stronger guys coming for him now he's old like they came for Wilander, are you feeling the pressure Novak? And he kinda-tongue-in-cheek responded he's not gonna fold over without a fight adding "I'm gonna make the next gen work their ass off" clearly in a joking matter with all in the studio laughing. Yet out of context, media created the next Novak conflict, like they did the past 10+ years - just like how you pick and choose Novak's words to make anything he says fit your "arrogant asshole" narrative. And yet when you ask around players actually living and breathing around Mr. Djokovic, and he's the nicest guys around and the first to recognize your talent and achievements - how can they be so blind?
 

steviebruno

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That's OK brah, it's how you carry yourself after coming up short is the true judge of character. And nah Daniil is not "just a kid" to Novak, he literally called Medvedev "the (best) tennis player on tour to beat" twice on Thursday "on an incredible 20 match winning streak incl. beating me in London". Plenty of respect but then comes the media narrative: this reporter asked Medvedev yesterday what he thinks of Djokovic stating "the youngsters are yet to prove their worth and I'm not gonna hand over my title to them" - Daniil, are you gonna prove this guy wrong on Sunday? And that seeming arrogant Djokovic message caught Daniil by surprise.

Actual context? Wilander asked Djokovic how he's feels about these bigger, younger, fresher and stronger guys coming for him now he's old like they came for Wilander, are you feeling the pressure Novak? And he kinda-tongue-in-cheek responded he's not gonna fold over without a fight adding "I'm gonna make the next gen work their ass off" clearly in a joking matter with all in the studio laughing. Yet out of context, media created the next Novak conflict, like they did the past 10+ years, and like how you pick and choose Novak's words to make anything he says fit the "arrogant asshole" narrative. And yet when you ask around players, he's actually the first to recognize your talent – clearly, how can the tour living and breathing with him be so wrong about that dick?
Smh... It's like impossible to discuss Novak Djokovic with you without you going into fan mode. Look, I know that you love the guy. I don't care. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, no?

Novak is going to say whatever he can to take some of the pressure off of himself, but his temperament will dictate something else. The last kid he played (Zverev) had the advantage and Novak responded by throwing a temper tantrum and delaying the action by sitting down in the back of the court after smashing his racket repeatedly. Ask yourself... if he truly respected Sasha's skills, why did he simply not accept that he was being outplayed by a very good player, bite down, and make the adjustments? No, it always has to be about him. That was a quarterfinal, btw. Do you expect him to behave better in a GS final? Lol.

The kids won't speak out because they aren't in position to. When they start winning slams, they'll find their voice (like Osaka has) and then they'll say what it really is. These guys have real animosity to each other (outside of Theim), but you think that Novak hasn't raised their ire? No. They stay silent out of respect for all that he's accomplished, relative to what they haven't.

Novak Djokovic being popular in the locker room with kids doesn't mean anything. Judge him by how he got along with his actual peers.
 

BigBone

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Soz Stevie boy, guess I didn't state it clear its not my intention to do our usual Djoko dance (we can get back to that later if you like) but to give the thread the routine example how the media takes a seemingly innocent, light hearted Novak comment answering a question on getting old and bombarded by the youth, and twisted it enough by journalists so it's fed back to Medvedev as an arrogant declaration of war.

Forget that you call Djokovic arrogant unrealizing you've been fed this shit the past decade, or which one is better: honest emotions on court and graceful take of a loss off it or smiling for the camera than making up injuries and mono afterwards like a dick. This is not about you and me but whether you find it okay or not that journalists, for headlines = more money spicing up and twisting quotes which is exactly what happened between the Wilander interview and what was then fed to Medvedev. Do you find these journalists objective, impartial and doing their job of reporting just fine or is it okay to take words out of context and create conflict out of thin air? That's all I'm asking.
 

steviebruno

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Soz Stevie boy, guess I didn't state it clear its not my intention to do our usual Djoko dance (we can get back to that later if you like) but to give the thread the routine example how the media takes a seemingly innocent, light hearted Novak comment answering a question on getting old and bombarded by the youth, and twisted it enough by journalists so it's fed back to Medvedev as an arrogant declaration of war.

Forget that you call Djokovic arrogant unrealizing you've been fed this shit the past decade, or which one is better: honest emotions on court and graceful take of a loss off it or smiling for the camera than making up injuries and mono afterwards like a dick. This is not about you and me but whether you find it okay or not that journalists, for headlines = more money spicing up and twisting quotes which is exactly what happened between the Wilander interview and what was then fed to Medvedev. Do you find these journalists objective, impartial and doing their job of reporting just fine or is it okay to take words out of context and create conflict out of thin air? That's all I'm asking.
Sigh...

The funny thing is that I wasn't even aware of the comment when I made my post. I don't need the media to show me what I can see for myself, and I don't make it a habit of sitting around watching tennis interviews. What is said before and after a match has no bearing on what happens during, so long as one guy isn't out there hamming it up. You want me to unsee his tantrums, fake injuries, and general asshole behavior and I will not. Unlike you, I'm not under any special obligation to excuse things that I, personally, would not do. Maybe you simply have more real-life asshole tendencies than I do, and so you see nothing wrong. I don't really care.

...I wonder how Sasha Zverev would react if he was playing against Tsitsipas and Stefanos decided to disrupt his rhythm in a GS quarterfinal by smashing his racket to bits and then plopping his ass down in the back of the court to meditate. Think he would be okay with that, Bigbone?
 

BigBone

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Sigh...

The funny thing is that I wasn't even aware of the comment when I made my post. I don't need the media to show me what I can see for myself, and I don't make it a habit of sitting around watching tennis interviews. What is said before and after a match has no bearing on what happens during, so long as one guy isn't out there hamming it up. You want me to unsee his tantrums, fake injuries, and general asshole behavior and I will not. Unlike you, I'm not under any special obligation to excuse things that I, personally, would not do. Maybe you simply have more real-life asshole tendencies than I do, and so you see nothing wrong. I don't really care.

...I wonder how Sasha Zverev would react if he was playing against Tsitsipas and Stefanos decided to disrupt his rhythm in a GS quarterfinal by smashing his racket to bits and then plopping his ass down in the back of the court to meditate. Think he would be okay with that, Bigbone?
You have special skills avoiding direct questions, especially ones pointing out how the media does picking and choosing of certain players' words, take them out of context, put them into a negative light to fit their agenda and have a blast at it. Pretty real-life asshole tendency if you ask me, but at least they have an excuse: juicy headlines sell. What's yours?

Also, may I one up you on Saint Sacha: wonder how he'd react playing his batshit crazy, serial racket smashing, umpire degrading, kicking, screaming self?



Better yet: how would he react if it wasn't a big, imposing male he wouldn't dare opposing, but his fragile girlfriend disrupting his chill? Rhetoric question as you walk into this punch Stevie: he'd choke her out, smash her to the wall, throw her out of the hotel room with barely any clothes and papers in a foreign country, emotionally terrorize and traumatize her, threaten her to shut the fuck up about his domestic violence and of course play victim when all of this blows up in the media. Another great example you gave us, Stevie, Saint Sacha doesn't deserve all this shit! :lol:
 

steviebruno

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You have special skills avoiding direct questions, especially ones pointing out how the media does picking and choosing of certain players' words, take them out of context, put them into a negative light to fit their agenda and have a blast at it. Pretty real-life asshole tendency if you ask me, but at least they have an excuse: juicy headlines sell. What's yours?

Also, may I one up you on Saint Sacha: wonder how he'd react playing his batshit crazy, serial racket smashing, umpire degrading, kicking, screaming self?



Better yet: how would he react if it wasn't a big, imposing male he wouldn't dare opposing, but his fragile girlfriend disrupting his chill? Rhetoric question as you walk into this punch Stevie: he'd choke her out, smash her to the wall, throw her out of the hotel room with barely any clothes and papers in a foreign country, emotionally terrorize and traumatize her, threaten her to shut the fuck up about his domestic violence and of course play victim when all of this blows up in the media. Another great example you gave us, Stevie, Saint Sacha doesn't deserve all this shit! :lol:
Are we in agreement that mistreating your wife/girlfriend makes one an asshole, Bigbone?
 

BigBone

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Are we in agreement that mistreating your wife/girlfriend makes one an asshole, Bigbone?
Appreciate you trying to get up after each knockdown and sure: don't mistreat da missus. It just depends if mistreatment is actual domestic violence, choking, shoving, throwing out onto the curb according to the victim's personal, Olya Sharypova's (also a player's) personal statement - or if mistreatment is a tabloid's "interpretation" of one of the many thousands of pictures where Djokovic appears with someone else - half of them are girls since half of the population is female. Thank you, EXACTLY my point about media manipulations but now back to Zacha since you skipped town again:

Does Saint Zverev deserve a completely silent court never mind he himself constantly makes drama on it - and swollen female faces off it? Answer me.
 

steviebruno

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Appreciate you trying to get up after each knockdown and sure: don't mistreat da missus. It just depends if mistreatment is actual domestic violence, choking, shoving, throwing out onto the curb according to the victim's personal, Olya Sharypova's (also a player's) personal statement - or if mistreatment is a tabloid's "interpretation" of one of the many thousands of pictures where Djokovic appears with someone else - half of them are girls since half of the population is female.
:rolleyes
 

BigBone

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Djokovic changed tactics and came out very fast to break. Medvedev, left in the locker room quickly broke back but Novak snatched it 7/5 in the 25th hour. Interesting. I say the ONLY way Novak (healthy, injured, fresh, tired) is taking Daniil out of his comfort zone and that's faster pace obviously. But he need this win in 4 sets max as Daniil is a mini Nole, always ready to fight back, in 5 if necessary.

thought so
 

BigBone

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Nole's service games are a mighty trouble, Medvedev very sharp on the return. But Djoko also ready those fast and precise Daniil serves well, clearly did homework on the young champ.
 

steviebruno

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Absolute masterclass from Djokovic thus far. Medvedev is much more tight than I expected and it's adversely affected his decision-making. Novak has him running side to side, coming in to net, standing well behind the baseline, and having no success with his second serve, putting more pressure on the first serve.

Comprehensive beating thus far.
 

BigBone

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Absolute masterclass from Djokovic thus far. Medvedev is much more tight than I expected and it's adversely affected his decision-making. Novak has him running side to side, coming in to net, standing well behind the baseline, and having no success with his second serve, putting more pressure on the first serve.

Comprehensive beating thus far.
Yes Medvedev looks tighter than usual and needs a set under his belt to start raising questions about Novak's veteran legs. He MUST slow the pace down, but comprehensive beating? I do not agree with that one.