The Brexit Negotiations

If we were to have a 2nd Referendum, how would you vote?


  • Total voters
    55
Jul 24, 2012
8,387
8,164
Going forward now that we have a split down the middle, fucked up Parliament, what do YOU hope to see achieved in the Brexit negotiations, what's the best outcome for us as a nation?

It doesn't matter if you're a Brexiteer or a Remoaner, fact is we're out and we need the best deal possible for the UK. Treeza said that No Deal is better than a Bad Deal ... I'm inclined to agree with that... the French and Germans will be looking to make an example of us in these negotiations, hence 100 billion euro divorce settlements and such.
 
Reactions: Dazl1212
Jun 17, 2012
5,062
2,974
The dream would be close security and economic ties as possible whilst reducing immigration and bringing laws back under UK jurisdiction, as opposed to the ECJ.

End the free movement across the EU, perhaps remodeling it as free movement from a smaller number of more developed countries or a simple system in place that will reduce immigration.

Free market access would be fantastic, but there will have to be concessions on both sides.
 
Jul 24, 2012
8,387
8,164
The dream would be close security and economic ties as possible whilst reducing immigration and bringing laws back under UK jurisdiction, as opposed to the ECJ.

End the free movement across the EU, perhaps remodeling it as free movement from a smaller number of more developed countries or a simple system in place that will reduce immigration.

Free market access would be fantastic, but there will have to be concessions on both sides.
How much would you consider to be a reasonable settlement fee for access to the free market?

As for immigration, I would prefer it to be meritocracy based only, for the worldwide population, not favouring any nations over another but based purely on their worth to the country.
 
Jun 17, 2012
5,062
2,974
How much would you consider to be a reasonable settlement fee for access to the free market?
I'd really have to look into that, you'd have to be a specialist in the field or very well read to derive a figure. I might pick up a couple of copies of the Economist here and there as they generally provide the level of detail that keeps the reader well informed.
 
Jul 24, 2012
8,387
8,164
I'd really have to look into that, you'd have to be a specialist in the field or very well read to derive a figure. I might pick up a couple of copies of the Economist here and there as they generally provide the level of detail that keeps the reader well informed.
Same. I'm no economics whizz.

As boring as this shit is, I really should read up on the details of the negotiations in more detail over the next couple weeks.
 

Ernest Shackleton

Moderate Assadist
Jun 8, 2013
15,397
5,724
We have to recognise tha immigration is bad for the economy, it has cost this country over a hundred billion pounds in the las fifteen years.

I would like the ability of creating a country that forces its young into professions like nursing or medicine so we are not immorally raping third world of that Labour.

So cuts to freedom of movement are a must, ability to strike trade deals would be second.

Academic proof is here behind paywall

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/wol1/doi/10.1111/ecoj.12181/full
 
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Claypole

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Jun 4, 2013
6,615
3,589
The EU doesn't want us to leave, so it's possible they will take advantage of our weakened political position and offer to revoke, or suspend Article 50. Leaving the EU will just become a long term idea that will never really happen.
 
Jul 24, 2012
8,387
8,164
The EU doesn't want us to leave, so it's possible they will take advantage of our weakened political position and offer to revoke, or suspend Article 50. Leaving the EU will just become a long term idea that will never really happen.
From a Guardian article
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/09/uk-shock-election-result-may-hamper-brexit-talks-eu-leaders-warn

"Donald Tusk, the European council president, reminded London that article 50 of the Lisbon treaty had already been triggered and talks would therefore have to be concluded by March 2019.

“We don’t know when Brexit talks start,” Tusk tweeted on Friday. “We know when they must end. Do your best to avoid a ‘no deal’ as result of ‘no negotiations’.” In a letter congratulating May on her reappointment, Tusk later warned there was “no time to lose” in starting the negotiations.

Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator, said the “timetable and EU positions are clear” and talks should start “when the UK is ready”, while the European commission president, Jean-Claude Juncker, confirmed the bloc stood ready to “open negotiations tomorrow morning at half-past nine”.
The EU will without doubt take advantage of our weakened position and they are going to pressure us to conclude negotiations in the original timetable. They are rubbing their hands at this, make no mistake. They don't want us to leave because the UK provides a net contribution of 8.5 billion euro per year but as we are leaving, the sure as fuck want to make life difficult for us on the trade deals front.
 
Reactions: Claypole
May 21, 2013
3,999
2,760
From a Guardian article
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/09/uk-shock-election-result-may-hamper-brexit-talks-eu-leaders-warn



The EU will without doubt take advantage of our weakened position and they are going to pressure us to conclude negotiations in the original timetable. They are rubbing their hands at this, make no mistake. They don't want us to leave because the UK provides a net contribution of 8.5 billion euro per year but as we are leaving, the sure as fuck want to make life difficult for us on the trade deals front.
the thing i find offensive in all this surely being part of the EU is, at its most basic concept, supposed to be voluntary. all this talk of making it shit for the UK and holding it to ransom, it's not very fucking Utopian is it? it suddenly starts to look like a dictatorial empire, with no pretense of brotherhood.

After all this rhetoric, who would still want to be in such a predatory and aggressive organisation, which welcomes you in with open arms, but then threatens to kill you if you leave?
 
May 31, 2012
21,885
10,979
UK
Being in the EU allows non EU immigrants to catch the virtual taxi service from Libya to Italy and come to England.
You talking about illegal immigrants and refugees? Does being in the EU really make it that much easier? Does the EU force us to take them? As far as I'm aware there's no EU legislation that makes us take in non EU immigrants as we've opted out of all that shit anyway.

How would this come up in Brexit negotiations? I don't think even the lot at the EU would have the balls to start trying to dictate how many Mediterranean refugees Britain takes as part of a Brexit agreement. Maybe though but even then the numbers aren't going to be that high...
 
Jul 24, 2012
8,387
8,164
the thing i find offensive in all this surely being part of the EU is, at its most basic concept, supposed to be voluntary. all this talk of making it shit for the UK and holding it to ransom, it's not very fucking Utopian is it? it suddenly starts to look like a dictatorial empire, with no pretense of brotherhood.

After all this rhetoric, who would still want to be in such a predatory and aggressive organisation, which welcomes you in with open arms, but then threatens to kill you if you leave?
Sure, this was all part of the Euroskeptics views on the EU in the first place, that it was a way for certain nations in the EU to have control over smaller nations. Look at how they treat European countries not in the EU like Switzerland, Norway, Iceland and Lichtenstein ... they don't like not have countries under this banner of a Union.

http://www.politico.eu/article/5-options-for-post-brexit-trade-with-europe-ukip-efta-single-market/

The first option available would be for the U.K. to sign up for the European Free Trade Association (EFTA) and then enter the European Economic Area (EEA), like Norway, Iceland and Lichtenstein.

While the EFTA is a loose intergovernmental organization aimed at promoting free trade and economic integration, countries in the EEA are part of the EU Single Market with free movements of people, goods, services and capital in all member countries.

This would allow the U.K. to maintain access to the Single Market and continue trading with EU member countries with very few export-import restrictions. But there’s a major caveat: it would also require the U.K. to accept a high proportion of EU laws without any way of representing its interests in the EU institutions that make them.

Not everyone in Norway, Iceland or Lichtenstein is happy with this arrangement.

Paal Frisvold, Norwegian managing director at Geelmuyden Kiese Brussels, a consulting and lobbying firm for Scandinavian companies, said that even though British Euroskeptics use the term “colonization” to describe the U.K.’s current relations with the EU, the term is more apt for Norway, which makes a full financial contribution to the EU budget but has no voice in the EU.

“It’s a very humiliating situation for Norway,” Paal Frisvold said. “People in Norway ask: ‘How are we seen in Brussels?’ But the problem is, we are not seen.”
Now whether there is truth to this concern or not, the fact seems to be that they simply can not afford to have the UK leave and maintain a good deal because it sets the precedent that other large nations may look at and say "well, if it works for them it could work for us" and all of this hard work setting up this bureaucracy falls apart.
 
Reactions: Dazl1212
Jul 24, 2012
8,387
8,164
You talking about illegal immigrants and refugees? Does being in the EU really make it that much easier? Does the EU force us to take them? As far as I'm aware there's no EU legislation that makes us take in non EU immigrants as we've opted out of all that shit anyway.

How would this come up in Brexit negotiations? I don't think even the lot at the EU would have the balls to start trying to dictate how many Mediterranean refugees Britain takes as part of a Brexit agreement. Maybe though but even then the numbers aren't going to be that high...
Yep.

The refugee / immigration thing is part the Freedom of Movement rules but May has already confirmed that this will unequivocally end because it was seen as one of the main drivers in the result of the Brexit Referendum with the British public, I think we can put that to the side, what immigration policies we enact will be dealt with outside of the negotiations at some point. The deal with European will hinge mostly on our trade arrangements, divorce settlements (if any) or maybe voluntary annual contributions to the EU.
 
Reactions: Lunny
May 31, 2012
21,885
10,979
UK
Yep.

The refugee / immigration thing is part the Freedom of Movement rules but May has already confirmed that this will unequivocally end because it was seen as one of the main drivers in the result of the Brexit Referendum with the British public, I think we can put that to the side, what immigration policies we enact will be dealt with outside of the negotiations at some point. The deal with European will hinge mostly on our trade arrangements, divorce settlements (if any) or maybe voluntary annual contributions to the EU.
I'm most interested in how the deal will effect privatising/nationalising/subsidising our industries. If we make a load of snazzy deals that leave us unable to fully control our own industry because of the EU's shitty competition rules then it's all been pointless and we'll just end up paying the same subsidies for foreign industry/agriculture as we are now while not having control of our own shit.

I dunno, economics is pretty confusing. Which is probably why they haven't bothered to even try and set out to the public what's going to be negotiated here.
 
Mar 6, 2014
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Anybody think they'll find a way around article 50 that gives more breathing space and moves the leaving date to tie in with the end of the current EU Multi Annual Financial Framework?

Would be very difficult to accomplish legally and politically but would certainly simplify negotiations somewhat going forwards. The current political stasis in the UK would provide a handy excuse.
 
May 31, 2012
21,885
10,979
UK
I don't want something where corporations can sneak on in and undermine our democracy like the TTIP proposals had. If we're leaving to take back control then let's not just sign it away immediately.

This is why Jezza C would have been good. He wants to nationalise the fuck out of everything. There's no way he's signing shit over to privatisation and corporate control.
 
Reactions: NSFW
Jul 24, 2012
8,387
8,164
I'm most interested in how the deal will effect privatising/nationalising/subsidising our industries. If we make a load of snazzy deals that leave us unable to fully control our own industry because of the EU's shitty competition rules then it's all been pointless and we'll just end up paying the same subsidies for foreign industry/agriculture as we are now while not having control of our own shit.

I dunno, economics is pretty confusing. Which is probably why they haven't bothered to even try and set out to the public what's going to be negotiated here.
and why it wasn't a great idea for the public to have a say in the matter in the first place. (but it was democracy)

I think we're out of the European Court of Justice regardless of what happens in the deals so what we privatise or nationalise will be our own judgement that they can't control?

Might be talking shite there though so if anyone knows how that works I'll bow to their knowledge on it.