The Historic Forum's 'what fights did you watch today' thread

desertlizard

southpaw
Dec 29, 2015
312
89
Baby Arizmendi's hometown
As you probably know, this was Monzon's first fight after a lengthy lay off due to his wife shooting him in the arm and shoulder during a domestic incident (poor woman)...and the champ wasn't at his best. Not taking away from the great EG, but I think Monzon may have been a trifle overconfident for this one. Next came another less than sterling, but winning performance vs Jean-Claude Bouttier. Carlos wouldn't return to form again until Feb. of 1974 vs Jose Napoles.
Napoles commiting an atrocius suicide there
 
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Phantom

Curious member...
May 17, 2013
9,552
2,515
Napoles commiting an atrocius suicide there
That's right. ...and what most people who criticize Monzon's victory because of the size disparity don't realize is that sooo many experts back then considered it to be a viable matchup and actually thought that Napoles would win...I know, because I was around back then.
 

desertlizard

southpaw
Dec 29, 2015
312
89
Baby Arizmendi's hometown
That's right. ...and what most people who criticize Monzon's victory because of the size disparity don't realize is that sooo many experts back then considered it to be a viable matchup and actually thought that Napoles woul win...I know, because I was around back then.

Napoles was real good at welters,,,a real old wolf in his division but man, i just think to myself wondering, did he really think he had a chance? i mean yeah most do going up divisions but man, Napoles really wanted the big bull at MW
 
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Phantom

Curious member...
May 17, 2013
9,552
2,515
Napoles was real good at welters,,,a real old wolf in his division but man, i just think to myself wondering, did he really think he had a chance? i mean yeah most do going up divisions but man, Napoles really wanted the big bull at MW
You should have read what the experts in the boxing mags at the time were saying. Monzon was given no credit at all. they were saying that Napoles would make Monzon look like a wooden cigar store indian...would outspeed, outpunch and outclass him. Angelo Dundee was frankly amazed at how Monzon dominated Mantequilla...called him a "super champion". Now inretrospect, maybe Jose was too small for him, but that sure wasn't the prevailing concensus of the boxing world at the time.
 
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Lester1583

Can You Hear This?
Jun 30, 2012
7,027
3,985
You should have read what the experts in the boxing mags at the time were saying. Monzon was given no credit at all. they were saying that Napoles would make Monzon look like a wooden cigar store indian...would outspeed, outpunch and outclass him. Angelo Dundee was frankly amazed at how Monzon dominated Mantequilla...called him a "super champion". Now inretrospect, maybe Jose was too small for him, but that sure wasn't the prevailing concensus of the boxing world at the time.
Exactly.

It's the same with Tyson-Spinks.

The fight wasn't seen as a mismatch at all.
Or a near mismatch like, say, Mayweather-Marquez.

It was about P4P-supremacy.

It's the Napoles win that propelled Monzon to the top.
 
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tommygun711

You don't have the capability for mayhem
Jun 4, 2013
11,370
2,407
29
Gerald McClellan vs Julian Jackson 1 in HD. One of those showtime replays where they upscale the quality.

Fantastic middleweight brawl and a great display of power punching from both guys. Really puts Canelo-GGG to shame. McClellan really was a well schooled neat boxer in terms of the versatility he possessed. he had a very good quick jab and was a killer with that left hook to the body. Don't really understand people that say he was just a 1 dimensional puncher, that couldn't be further from the truth.

Gerald's chin is just rediculous in this fight, this is where I noticed the blinking thing with Gman, its possible he was already suffering brain trauma issues at that point.

Cinematic finish

 
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Reactions: thehook13
Jun 3, 2013
1,999
287
NJ-USA
Holyfield vs Dokes. Didnt score it but had it sitting in my watch later for a while. Kept reading how it was the heavyweight fight of the 80s. Holyshit what a very little discussed war. Dokes that night looked like he could be a handful for lots of top heavyweights

Lebedev vs Gassiev, I'm going to the Gassiev vs Wlodarcyzk fight in Newark tonight so I thought i'd give myself a little preview.

Scored it 114-113 7 to 5 with a knockdown to Lebedev. Really was not all that impressed by Gassiev who really just stalks and throws minimal punches. Seems to have gotten very far with cutting off the ring and taking a punch and being a hard puncher. He uses his feet a lot but doesnt throw much or move his upper body a big disparity in activity between his legs and upper body. Lebedev hardly hit the body and Gassiev wasnt very active with his hands and still he was tired in 11 and 12

I really dont understand the scores. I had it to Denis as did the UK TV guys card had it 115-112 for Lebedev. The judges had it by 4 points the other way to Gassiev. I'd love to see what rounds he was given. Lebedev early boxed him before the knockdown then boxed him well after it. Gassiev won a few in a row then Lebedev came on late

Lebedev to me won 2,3,4,6,7,11,12 and the TV guy gave Lebedev 10 which was close he also gave Lebedev the first which I did not. He did give Gassiev 3 and 4 but I disagree. I see lots of guys in the general talking up Gassiev for tonight. I havent seen Diablo since he lost to Drozd but if he hasnt lost a step I see no reason to believe he couldnt out box Gassiev especially if the punches dont bother him
 
Jun 3, 2013
1,999
287
NJ-USA
Went through the HBO best of 2017


Gonzalez vs Rung Vi Sai all 3 judges plus Lederman

1- 8-10 RV

2- 10-9 G only judge 3

3- 10-9 G all 3 plus Lederman

4- 10-0 G 1 and 2 plus Lederman

5- 10-9 G all 3 plus Lederman

6- 10-8 G all 3 plus Lederman and Steve Willis said last warning before taking the point

7- 9-10 RV all 3 plus Lederman

8- 10-9 G Lederman, judges cards not shown

9- 9-10 RV all 3 plus Lederman

10- 9-10 RV all 3

11- 9-10 RV all 3 plus Lederman

12- 10-9 G didnt see Harold or real judges scores for it

f: 114-112 for Gonzalez 7-5 in rounds

1 Feldman 114-112 RV...2 Lederman 114-112 RV...3 Roldan 113-113 Draw


Very good fight and for the most part I felt it was pretty easy to score as the judges and Lederman seemed to agree on a ton of rounds. I found it odd that Roldan didn't score the 4th for Gonzalez considering it mirrored 3 and 5 which he gave to Gonzalez. Round 2 i was a little against the grain so that helped make the difference on Julie Lederman and Glenn Feldmans cards.


Very violent fight, Gonzalez came out kind of slow but the cut seemed to light a fire under his ass. I wont call this a robbery but I dont see how Rung Vi Sai got the nod. I think I could definitely switch round 2 but that would make it a draw. I dont think many rounds were close. There seemed to be clear winners in the rounds.
 
Jun 3, 2013
1,999
287
NJ-USA
Golovkin vs Canelo


1- 9-10 C and all 3 judges

2- 9-10 C all 3 plus Harold

3- 10-9 G judge 2 and 3

4- 10-9 G all 3 and Harold

5- 10-9 G judge 2,3 and Harold

6- 10-9 G judge 2,3 and Harold

7- 10-9 G 1, 2, and Harold odd judge 3 didnt score for GGG as it mirrors the last several

8- 10-9 G 2,3 and Harold

9- 10-9 G judges not shown but Lederman agrees

10- 9-10 Canelo all 3

11- 9-10 Canelo Lederman too but no judges shown

12- 9-10 canelo saw none of the other scores

f- 115-113 Golovkin


1) Byrd 118-110 Alvarez

2) Moretti 115-113 Golovkin

3) Trella 114-114 even

Lederman I believe had 116-112


Going back and watching this fight with no commentary, crowd noise, booze in my system, suspense of the live event and a room full of people cheering this fight was a lot less exciting than it was with those other factors. I did not score it live because of those things and I dont like to score a fight or take a hard line without scoring a fight rbr and wont really disrespect the sport and judging by basing my opinion hard line without a real serious card. I did agree with Lederman a lot live and felt Golovkin won handily. When watching it again seeing Harold differ on 2 rounds was interesting.


I know a common theme of the fight was Canelo won the first 3 easily and the last 3 easily and Golovkin won everything in between. I find this to be false as two judges gave Golovkin the third which I did too and Lederman gave Golovkin round 1 but not round 3. Not exactly cut and dry between 3 official judges and 1 former judge who is a regular TV scorer. I mean to me round 1 and 2 were very close. I know Golovkin really only landed jabs in round 1 but they were hard jabs. Golovkin was the ring general. Canelo threw flashy power shots but they didnt appear to really land clean maybe even not as clean as Golovkins jab.


I had 4-9 as a sweep though I thought 5 was pretty tight despite everyone but Byrd giving it to Alvarez. The first 5 rounds reminded me much of De La Hoya vs Mayweather in ways. In that fight Oscar was able to use his size and jab to corner Floyd and then have ineffectual barrages on the ropes and corners while Floyd had the more accurate and flashy work. Difference being Golovkin was more consistent and defensively responsible and Alvarez was less accurate or effective as Floyd. One thing Golovkin fell short on that Oscar did vs Floyd was an inability to counter.


This fight to me fell into a pattern. Golovkin jabbing Alvarez to the ropes and trying to find a way to hit the elusive target. Canelo sees everything and makes most miss or rolls with them. Alvarez fires back and Golovkin backs out of range making Canelo miss but does not make him pay. Alvarez then goes back to the ropes and rinse and repeat. This to me in a subsequent viewing without the suspense and drama of not knowing who wins kind of results in a dull fight.


I was stunned to see Trella not give Golovkin round 7 only because 4-9 were very similar dare I say identical rounds and Trella scored all but 7 to Golovkin (9 wasnt shown in the breakdown so he may have differed but I dont know)..Given I had it 115-113 and Trella had 114-114 I would say its most likely the 7th is what costed Golovkin and to me its bizarre he scored it that way.


Round 10, 11 and 12 sort of reminded me of Froch vs Dirrel. Froch was ineffective but very aggressive and Dirrel was super accurate and sharp but was very negative. Alavrez showed a lot of bravado hanging on the ropes and lots of defensive savvy but from 3-9 or 4-9 his offense was pretty dead. In 10 on he suddenly decided to let his hands go more and was very effective. Dirrel turned on a dime late in the fight hurting Froch and landing constantly but just ran out of time.


In the 12 rounds I really dont think Canelo ever hurt Golovkin but did land the highlight real shot of the fight. Golovkins highlight shot was a looping right around the guard cant remember the round. I do think Golovkin momentarily hurt Canelo in the early part of the 9th but Canelo masked it well and did well to survive and fire back.


All in all I cant say with any confidence was what Byrd was watching. I guess a draw is fair I mean Trella and I had very similar cards with Byrd and Lederman giving Alvarez the third and a large chunk of fans too. I wouldnt fight you tooth an nail if you said he deserved that round...Maybe you can argue the 5th to Canelo but 2 of 3 plus Harold saw it for GGG. At the same time Lederman gave GGG 10 and it was a close and competitive round. 7 rounds for Alvarez to me is stretch but 8 to Golovkin isnt necessarily. Moretti at 115-113 GGG and Trella even feel like the right card..I will say Alvarez had the body language of a beaten man in the announcing and post fight in ring interview


The rematch, if there is one, boy thats tough


Both seemed to take one anothers power. Both had plenty in the tank to go 12 and the last 3 were hard fought. I know Canelo gets the stick for his gas tank and he was heavily out worked but he finished strong.


-GGG does he hit the body? Its a huge weapon for him in other fights but very unused here

-Does he jab and move more? I mean Alvarez came out very negative but he is historically bad at facing movers who make him lead. GGG has stuck and moved example Lemiuex, I thought he would have fought Canelo like that

-Can GGG counter him this time, something he didnt do. Or can he time him in an exchange like he did vs Geale and Wade and nail him mid punch. This didnt happen ever in the fight, there were not too many exchanges it was a lot of turn taking


-Canelo, did he see something in the 10th. Canelo to me was only truly hurt seeming in 1 round. Other than that he took everything very well. As mentioned he turned a switch late and I felt he swept 10 on or at the very least 11 and 12 which saved his ass. Did he see a flaw or did GGG just stall out? If Canelo opts to come out of his shell early and try and trade or being the aggressor how does this go for him. Does he get caught? Does he gas? Or maybe he takes initiative and wins clear.
 

thehook13

‪#‎Pray4Khan‬
May 16, 2013
62,375
14,271
1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10 - mccallum
4, 7 - Watson

Ko'd in the 11 - Excellent fight from both men. Wall to wall action


Tremendous performance from Mccallum, all the technical skill, strength and conditioning, toughness, championship quality you can ask for in a fighter.

Watson had all the heart, audacity and toughness of a young challenger. Watson unfortunately outclassed in every department, not to mention a terrible style match up for Watson.

mccallum would have been a nightmare for eubanks and benn.
 
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