Trump may have just secured NK peace.

Jun 4, 2012
24,657
14,533
That poll is sheer idiocy. Everyone should hope it works out. I give Trump credit for trying a new approach regardless of how it pans out. I will mock the hypocrisy of his supporters (You said, with a straight face most likely "Barry unfroze billions of dollars and suspended sanctions for the hope that Iran would stop its nuke program because they said so. " while Trump is also basing a deal off of trusting a state that historically does not act in good faith simply because they said so).

Diplomacy absolutely should be attempted. If anything as a matter of due diligence. Any and all options should be extinguished in the hopes of securing peace. So as much as it pains me to say it: Kudos to Trump for even attempting to work out a deal here. Whatever the outcome, he gets credit for attempting to work toward a resolution. The same reluctant credit I gave Obama on Iran. It's not optimal to enter agreements with parties that do not act in good faith, but I definitely hope it works towards peace.
Yeah, there's no one worse than Sean Hannity when it comes to that type of hypocrisy, but besides that, your main point is correct. The media, both left and right media and alot of people, both left and right who follow politics are similar in their hypocritical cheerleading and hypocritical bashing. This is a main reason why I spend very little time watching political shows even though I used to watch a lot of them. Of course you're going to have a negative reaction when a president that you voted against is doing something you don't agree with, but I don't get having the opposite reaction when a president that you did vote for is doing the same exact thing. Like I didn't vote for Trump, but if Trump ever went back to the position that he had in 2000 when he was for single payer health care and was actually trying to go for it, I'd be cheering him the fuck on. If Trump ever tried to seriously end nafta, I'd be cheering him on. The reason I vote is because I want the candidate who most agrees with me more to win because I want to see more things that I agree with happen. So I'm not going to get mad if the person that I voted against is doing things I agree with.

It seems that basically those type of people, on the left and right don't really care about issues. They are literally just cheerleaders with pom poms, rooting for a team to win elections with little or no regard to what they do in office.
Two great posts, agreed on all fronts.
 
Likes: Big Yank Bal

Joe E

Proud Shitholer
Jul 29, 2012
15,123
3,165
That's the way I look at it. I don't have any confidence that it will work out, not because of Trump but because of North Korea's history, but any attempts at something are good. Worst comes to worse, it probably won't get any worse than what it already was, so there's really probably nothing to lose here anyway.
Moon has been conspicuously absent in this.
 

thehook13

‪#‎Pray4Khan‬
May 16, 2013
62,080
14,049
SwollenEGO is running out of allies who are all in when in comes to anti Trump mental retardation. You are down to @Haggis and @thehook13, two CHB laughing stocks. :killself

Yes you can be anti Trump and still be a rationale thinker....something you are incapable of.
Atleast promise me once this retardation is over and he hasn't achieved anything of merit. You realize what an idiot you were and why you have to clean up turds from broken toilets for a living.
 
May 8, 2013
7,468
2,131
Goat heads exploding in 3, 2, 1...

Two Norwegian lawmakers representing the populist party in the country’s legislature have nominated President Donald Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize after his summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un.

The lawmakers told their local media that Trump has “taken a huge and important step in the direction of the disarmament, peace and reconciliation between North and South Korea.” The nomination comes after Counselor to the President Kellyanne Conway took a swipe at former President Barack Obama’s own Nobel Peace Prize saying “look, the last president was handed Nobel Peace Prize. This president is actually going to earn it.”

The Nobel committee notes that one of the categories of people eligible to nominate individuals are “Members of national assemblies and national governments (cabinet members/ministers) of sovereign states as well as current heads of states.” Currently there are “330 candidates for the Nobel Peace Prize for 2018 out of which 216 are individuals and 114 are organizations.”
 
May 8, 2013
7,468
2,131
So,Trump is going to suspend SOuth Korean/North Korean joint exercises and the North Koreans are going to....................promise to do stuff

Like theyve promised every time they go through this dance

Kim is going to go back to NK and be hailed as a hero as he 'forced' Trump to the table and FURTHER forced him to suspend war games..............and what did Trump get out of it?

Some nice pics

A pic of him holding a useless bit of paper...............

Great job


Trump Was Outfoxed in Singapore




It sure looks as if President Trump was hoodwinked in Singapore.

Trump made a huge concession — the suspension of military exercises with South Korea. That’s on top of the broader concession of the summit meeting itself, security guarantees he gave North Korea and the legitimacy that the summit provides his counterpart, Kim Jong-un.

Within North Korea, the “very special bond” that Trump claimed to have formed with Kim will be portrayed this way: Kim forced the American president, through his nuclear and missile tests, to accept North Korea as a nuclear equal, to provide security guarantees to North Korea, and to cancel war games with South Korea that the North has protested for decades.

In exchange for these concessions, Trump seems to have won astonishingly little. In a joint statement, Kim merely “reaffirmed” the same commitment to denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula that North Korea has repeatedly made since 1992.

“They were willing to de-nuke,” Trump crowed at his news conference after his meetings with Kim. Trump seemed to believe he had achieved some remarkable agreement, but the concessions were all his own.

The most remarkable aspect of the joint statement was what it didn’t contain. There was nothing about North Korea freezing plutonium and uranium programs, nothing about destroying intercontinental ballistic missiles, nothing about allowing inspectors to return to nuclear sites, nothing about North Korea making a full declaration of its nuclear program, nothing about a timetable, nothing about verification, not even any clear pledge to permanently halt testing of nuclear weapons or long-range missiles.

Kim seems to have completely out-negotiated Trump, and it’s scary that Trump doesn’t seem to realize this. For now Trump has much less to show than past negotiators who hammered out deals with North Korea like the 1994 Agreed Framework, which completely froze the country’s plutonium program with a rigorous monitoring system.

Trump made a big deal in his news conference about recovering the remains of American soldiers from the Korean War, but this is nothing new. Back in 1989, on my first trip to North Korea, officials there made similar pledges about returning remains, and indeed North Korea has returned some remains over the years. It’s not clear how many more remain.

Trump claimed an “excellent relationship” with Kim, and it certainly is better for the two leaders to be exchanging compliments rather than missiles. In a sense, Trump has eased the tensions that he himself created when he threatened last fall to “totally destroy” North Korea. I’m just not sure a leader should get credit for defusing a crisis that he himself created.

There’s still plenty we don’t know and lots of uncertainty about the future. But for now, the bottom line is that there’s no indication that North Korea is prepared to give up its nuclear weapons, and Trump didn’t achieve anything remotely as good as the Iran nuclear deal, which led Iran to eliminate 98 percent of its enriched uranium.

There was also something frankly weird about an American president savaging Canada’s prime minister one day and then embracing the leader of the most totalitarian country in the world.

“He’s a very talented man,” Trump said of Kim. “I also learned that he loves his country very much.”

In an interview with Voice of America, Trump said “I like him” and added: “He’s smart, loves his people, he loves his country.”

Trump praised Kim in the news conference and, astonishingly, even adopted North Korean positions as his own, saying that the United States military exercises in the region are “provocative.” That’s a standard North Korean propaganda line. Likewise, Trump acknowledged that human rights in North Korea constituted a “rough situation,” but quickly added that “it’s rough in a lot of places, by the way.” (Note that a 2014 United Nations report stated that North Korean human rights violations do “not have any parallel in the contemporary world.”)

Incredibly, Trump told Voice of America that he had this message for the North Korean people: “I think you have somebody that has a great feeling for them. He wants to do right by them and we got along really well.”

It’s breathtaking to see an American president emerge as a spokesman for the dictator of North Korea.

One can argue that my perspective is too narrow: That what counts in a broader sense is that the risk of war is much less today than it was a year ago, and North Korea has at least stopped its nuclear tests and missile tests. Fundamentally, Trump has abandoned bellicose rhetoric and instead embraced the longstanding Democratic position — that we should engage North Korea, even if the result isn’t immediate disarmament.

The 1994 Agreed Framework, for example, didn’t denuclearize North Korea or solve the human rights issues there, but it still kept the regime from adding to its plutonium arsenal for eight years. Imperfect processes can still be beneficial, and the ongoing meetings between the United States and North Korea may result in a similar framework that at least freezes the North Korean arsenal.

Of all the things that could have gone badly wrong in a Trump administration, a “bloody nose” strike on North Korea leading to a nuclear war was perhaps the most terrifying. For now at least, Trump seems to have been snookered into the same kind of deeply frustrating diplomatic process with North Korea that he has complained about, but that is far better than war.

Even so, it’s still bewildering how much Trump gave and how little he got. The cancellation of military exercises will raise questions among our allies, such as Japan, about America’s commitment to those allies.

The Trump-Kim statement spoke vaguely about efforts “to build a lasting and stable peace regime on the Korean peninsula,” whatever that means. But that was much less specific than the 1994 pledge to exchange diplomatic liaison offices, and the 2005 pledge to work for a peace treaty to end the Korean War.
In January 2017, Trump proclaimed in a tweet: “North Korea just stated that it is in the final stages of developing a nuclear weapon capable of reaching parts of the U.S. It won’t happen!” But in fact it appears to have happened on Trump’s watch, and nothing in the Singapore summit seems to have changed that.
All this is to say that Kim Jong-un proved the more able negotiator. North Korean government officials have to limit their computer time, because of electricity shortages, and they are international pariahs — yet they are very savvy and shrewd, and they were counseled by one of the smartest Trump handlers of all, President Moon Jae-in of South Korea.

My guess is that Kim flattered Trump, as Moon has, and that Trump simply didn’t realize how little he was getting. On my most recent visit to North Korea, officials were asking me subtle questions about the differences in views of Mike Pompeo and Nikki Haley; meanwhile, Trump said he didn’t need to do much homework.

Whatever our politics, we should all want Trump to succeed in reducing tensions on the Korean Peninsula, and it’s good to see that Trump now supports engagement rather than military options. There will be further negotiations, and these may actually freeze plutonium production and destroy missiles. But at least in the first round, Trump seems to have been snookered.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/trump-was-outfoxed-in-singapore/ar-AAyxFOZ
Goat has been reduced to quoting MSN to slam Trump? LOL Goat you can do better. We have seen you do better. You are slipping, my friend. Take a breath and re-group. Your TDS can be inspiring when you really work it.
 
Likes: VinoVeritas
Aug 18, 2013
1,889
928
Goat has been reduced to quoting MSN to slam Trump? LOL Goat you can do better. We have seen you do better. You are slipping, my friend. Take a breath and re-group. Your TDS can be inspiring when you really work it.
Oh it gets worse than that. He uses HuffPost also which is in direct conflict with being active on the SJW insanity thread considering they are one of the biggest sources when in comes to liberal SJW retardation.
 
May 19, 2013
19,764
2,189
So,Trump is going to suspend SOuth Korean/North Korean joint exercises and the North Koreans are going to....................promise to do stuff

Like theyve promised every time they go through this dance

Kim is going to go back to NK and be hailed as a hero as he 'forced' Trump to the table and FURTHER forced him to suspend war games..............and what did Trump get out of it?

Some nice pics

A pic of him holding a useless bit of paper...............

Great job


Trump Was Outfoxed in Singapore




It sure looks as if President Trump was hoodwinked in Singapore.

Trump made a huge concession — the suspension of military exercises with South Korea. That’s on top of the broader concession of the summit meeting itself, security guarantees he gave North Korea and the legitimacy that the summit provides his counterpart, Kim Jong-un.

Within North Korea, the “very special bond” that Trump claimed to have formed with Kim will be portrayed this way: Kim forced the American president, through his nuclear and missile tests, to accept North Korea as a nuclear equal, to provide security guarantees to North Korea, and to cancel war games with South Korea that the North has protested for decades.

In exchange for these concessions, Trump seems to have won astonishingly little. In a joint statement, Kim merely “reaffirmed” the same commitment to denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula that North Korea has repeatedly made since 1992.

“They were willing to de-nuke,” Trump crowed at his news conference after his meetings with Kim. Trump seemed to believe he had achieved some remarkable agreement, but the concessions were all his own.

The most remarkable aspect of the joint statement was what it didn’t contain. There was nothing about North Korea freezing plutonium and uranium programs, nothing about destroying intercontinental ballistic missiles, nothing about allowing inspectors to return to nuclear sites, nothing about North Korea making a full declaration of its nuclear program, nothing about a timetable, nothing about verification, not even any clear pledge to permanently halt testing of nuclear weapons or long-range missiles.

Kim seems to have completely out-negotiated Trump, and it’s scary that Trump doesn’t seem to realize this. For now Trump has much less to show than past negotiators who hammered out deals with North Korea like the 1994 Agreed Framework, which completely froze the country’s plutonium program with a rigorous monitoring system.

Trump made a big deal in his news conference about recovering the remains of American soldiers from the Korean War, but this is nothing new. Back in 1989, on my first trip to North Korea, officials there made similar pledges about returning remains, and indeed North Korea has returned some remains over the years. It’s not clear how many more remain.

Trump claimed an “excellent relationship” with Kim, and it certainly is better for the two leaders to be exchanging compliments rather than missiles. In a sense, Trump has eased the tensions that he himself created when he threatened last fall to “totally destroy” North Korea. I’m just not sure a leader should get credit for defusing a crisis that he himself created.

There’s still plenty we don’t know and lots of uncertainty about the future. But for now, the bottom line is that there’s no indication that North Korea is prepared to give up its nuclear weapons, and Trump didn’t achieve anything remotely as good as the Iran nuclear deal, which led Iran to eliminate 98 percent of its enriched uranium.

There was also something frankly weird about an American president savaging Canada’s prime minister one day and then embracing the leader of the most totalitarian country in the world.

“He’s a very talented man,” Trump said of Kim. “I also learned that he loves his country very much.”

In an interview with Voice of America, Trump said “I like him” and added: “He’s smart, loves his people, he loves his country.”

Trump praised Kim in the news conference and, astonishingly, even adopted North Korean positions as his own, saying that the United States military exercises in the region are “provocative.” That’s a standard North Korean propaganda line. Likewise, Trump acknowledged that human rights in North Korea constituted a “rough situation,” but quickly added that “it’s rough in a lot of places, by the way.” (Note that a 2014 United Nations report stated that North Korean human rights violations do “not have any parallel in the contemporary world.”)

Incredibly, Trump told Voice of America that he had this message for the North Korean people: “I think you have somebody that has a great feeling for them. He wants to do right by them and we got along really well.”

It’s breathtaking to see an American president emerge as a spokesman for the dictator of North Korea.

One can argue that my perspective is too narrow: That what counts in a broader sense is that the risk of war is much less today than it was a year ago, and North Korea has at least stopped its nuclear tests and missile tests. Fundamentally, Trump has abandoned bellicose rhetoric and instead embraced the longstanding Democratic position — that we should engage North Korea, even if the result isn’t immediate disarmament.

The 1994 Agreed Framework, for example, didn’t denuclearize North Korea or solve the human rights issues there, but it still kept the regime from adding to its plutonium arsenal for eight years. Imperfect processes can still be beneficial, and the ongoing meetings between the United States and North Korea may result in a similar framework that at least freezes the North Korean arsenal.

Of all the things that could have gone badly wrong in a Trump administration, a “bloody nose” strike on North Korea leading to a nuclear war was perhaps the most terrifying. For now at least, Trump seems to have been snookered into the same kind of deeply frustrating diplomatic process with North Korea that he has complained about, but that is far better than war.

Even so, it’s still bewildering how much Trump gave and how little he got. The cancellation of military exercises will raise questions among our allies, such as Japan, about America’s commitment to those allies.

The Trump-Kim statement spoke vaguely about efforts “to build a lasting and stable peace regime on the Korean peninsula,” whatever that means. But that was much less specific than the 1994 pledge to exchange diplomatic liaison offices, and the 2005 pledge to work for a peace treaty to end the Korean War.
In January 2017, Trump proclaimed in a tweet: “North Korea just stated that it is in the final stages of developing a nuclear weapon capable of reaching parts of the U.S. It won’t happen!” But in fact it appears to have happened on Trump’s watch, and nothing in the Singapore summit seems to have changed that.
All this is to say that Kim Jong-un proved the more able negotiator. North Korean government officials have to limit their computer time, because of electricity shortages, and they are international pariahs — yet they are very savvy and shrewd, and they were counseled by one of the smartest Trump handlers of all, President Moon Jae-in of South Korea.

My guess is that Kim flattered Trump, as Moon has, and that Trump simply didn’t realize how little he was getting. On my most recent visit to North Korea, officials were asking me subtle questions about the differences in views of Mike Pompeo and Nikki Haley; meanwhile, Trump said he didn’t need to do much homework.

Whatever our politics, we should all want Trump to succeed in reducing tensions on the Korean Peninsula, and it’s good to see that Trump now supports engagement rather than military options. There will be further negotiations, and these may actually freeze plutonium production and destroy missiles. But at least in the first round, Trump seems to have been snookered.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/trump-was-outfoxed-in-singapore/ar-AAyxFOZ
Now you’re trolling and grasping for straws.

SG, throw in the towel
 
Jun 4, 2013
4,695
1,506
I need to point something out here. NK has been 'at odds' with the USA for like 40 years yes? Now the US in that time has been consistently undertaking war drills in SK.

People are crying that Trump gave in and gave Kim the pulling out of US exercises in SK. But think about this......for 40 od years the US has been undertaking military exercises on NK's doorstep and they've told their people only their unity and military is keeping them from being invaded.

Kim can now go back with his head held high and tell his people he has brokered a deal to stop US aggression. In this manner he does not lose face and he and his country keep their heads held high. This also open up the door for the next step in diplomacy. We already know the US dominates NK but NK also now thinks it won US respect. Win / Win.

Trump's absolutely on the right path here. This is like a business deal: make the deal mutually beneficial so both parties come to terms.
 
Jul 24, 2012
6,276
5,378
I need to point something out here. NK has been 'at odds' with the USA for like 40 years yes? Now the US in that time has been consistently undertaking war drills in SK.

People are crying that Trump gave in and gave Kim the pulling out of US exercises in SK. But think about this......for 40 od years the US has been undertaking military exercises on NK's doorstep and they've told their people only their unity and military is keeping them from being invaded.

Kim can now go back with his head held high and tell his people he has brokered a deal to stop US aggression. In this manner he does not lose face and he and his country keep their heads held high. This also open up the door for the next step in diplomacy. We already know the US dominates NK but NK also now thinks it won US respect. Win / Win.

Trump's absolutely on the right path here. This is like a business deal: make the deal mutually beneficial so both parties come to terms.
I'm struggling to understand what it is that people expected to happen at this meeting ... do these people go out on a 1st date, come home and kick fuck out the dog because they never got a blowjob and anal?

I couldn't believe the naivety of the questions Trump was being asked in the conference.

So he brought a halt to War Games in the peninsula, and?

Do they honestly believ Moon hadn't agreed to this prior to the meeting ... do they not understand that they can be resumed overnight if conditions are broken.
 

errsta

Otter Connoisseur
May 16, 2013
5,147
1,195
[]D [] []V[] []D
errsta.com
The promotion of human rights cannot be about exhortation alone. At times, it must be coupled with painstaking diplomacy. I know that engagement with repressive regimes lacks the satisfying purity of indignation. But I also know that sanctions without outreach -- condemnation without discussion -- can carry forward only a crippling status quo. No repressive regime can move down a new path unless it has the choice of an open door.

In light of the Cultural Revolution's horrors, Nixon's meeting with Mao appeared inexcusable -- and yet it surely helped set China on a path where millions of its citizens have been lifted from poverty and connected to open societies. Pope John Paul's engagement with Poland created space not just for the Catholic Church, but for labor leaders like Lech Walesa. Ronald Reagan's efforts on arms control and embrace of perestroika not only improved relations with the Soviet Union, but empowered dissidents throughout Eastern Europe. There's no simple formula here. But we must try as best we can to balance isolation and engagement, pressure and incentives, so that human rights and dignity are advanced over time. - Donald J. Trump
 
May 17, 2013
48,920
12,037
The House that Peterbilt
The promotion of human rights cannot be about exhortation alone. At times, it must be coupled with painstaking diplomacy. I know that engagement with repressive regimes lacks the satisfying purity of indignation. But I also know that sanctions without outreach -- condemnation without discussion -- can carry forward only a crippling status quo. No repressive regime can move down a new path unless it has the choice of an open door.

In light of the Cultural Revolution's horrors, Nixon's meeting with Mao appeared inexcusable -- and yet it surely helped set China on a path where millions of its citizens have been lifted from poverty and connected to open societies. Pope John Paul's engagement with Poland created space not just for the Catholic Church, but for labor leaders like Lech Walesa. Ronald Reagan's efforts on arms control and embrace of perestroika not only improved relations with the Soviet Union, but empowered dissidents throughout Eastern Europe. There's no simple formula here. But we must try as best we can to balance isolation and engagement, pressure and incentives, so that human rights and dignity are advanced over time. - Donald J. Trump
a very fair and well said statement

which,of course,rules out the idea that Trump wrote the thing

Still,credit where credit is due,he is right..............

Personally,Ive not tried to tie this meeting or attempt at getting the NKs to de-nuke to any human rights issues because there is no way in holy fuck we are going to force them to not be dicks in their own nation.................the very best we can hope for is that they dont toss a nuke or decide to retake Seoul just to see what happens......
 
Likes: errsta
Jun 4, 2013
4,695
1,506
The promotion of human rights cannot be about exhortation alone. At times, it must be coupled with painstaking diplomacy. I know that engagement with repressive regimes lacks the satisfying purity of indignation. But I also know that sanctions without outreach -- condemnation without discussion -- can carry forward only a crippling status quo. No repressive regime can move down a new path unless it has the choice of an open door.

In light of the Cultural Revolution's horrors, Nixon's meeting with Mao appeared inexcusable -- and yet it surely helped set China on a path where millions of its citizens have been lifted from poverty and connected to open societies. Pope John Paul's engagement with Poland created space not just for the Catholic Church, but for labor leaders like Lech Walesa. Ronald Reagan's efforts on arms control and embrace of perestroika not only improved relations with the Soviet Union, but empowered dissidents throughout Eastern Europe. There's no simple formula here. But we must try as best we can to balance isolation and engagement, pressure and incentives, so that human rights and dignity are advanced over time. - Donald J. Trump
I had no idea Nixon met Mao. You learn something new everyday!

Very good point. Didn't Mao's great leap kill 60 odd million in one way shape or form? I need to read up on this tomorrow. I wonder how the meeting changed the countries direction? I can imagine the flak Nixon got. Likely some strong parallels.
 
May 17, 2013
48,920
12,037
The House that Peterbilt
But he is still smarter than most people walking this Earth.

I wonder why SwollenEGO doesn't go after V-2 or Strike when they on occasion side with Trump...could it be he is terrified of being exposed as a mental midget?
fuck almighty you are dumb

I,on occasion,'side with trump' you fuckwit

What I DONT do is deep throat the fuckin Cheeto,whatever he does,and ignore everything we know about reality in an attempt to excuse the stupid shit he is responsible for

And,as of right now,he has done more stupid shit,faster,than any president in my lifetime...............

You are too goddamned rock stupid to see that he is working AGAINST you in a million ways,handing more power and influence to those who have fucked the middle class over for the past 40 years................you are so fucking dumb you CHEER shit like appointing global warming deniers to the EPA and Wall ST execs to run his economic program and a fucking telecom lobbyist to run the FCC.............

A HUGE decision by the SCOTUS just happened,one that prevents unified bargaining or arbitration by non union workers and imposes industry arbitration decisions as final on those same workers and NOT A FUCKING PEEP OUT OF ONE OF YOU DIPSHIT CHEETO LOVING FUCKWITS

That decision will impact YOU and YOUR KIDS and THEIR KIDS,further weakening labor for the benefit of corporations and billionaires and you dont even know it happened,never mind do you have the character to criticize it because whatever Trump does,and the decision was the one he wanted,is totally cool with you,..............because you are,quite obviously,at least semi retarded