Classic Which famous fighters maintained lifelong good health, and which didn't?

Duo

Bosomus Maximus
Jun 14, 2012
6,421
3,109
#61
People talk about Ali and how great a guy he was,and how he was discriminated against. I venture to say that Moore encounter much more discrimination,but never seemed bitter. Had more fights than Ali and didn't show as many signs of damage. And,only my opinion and not denigrating Ali as he was quite unique,a better man.
His autobiography was not ghostwritten either. He had the combination of upper arm thickness and reflexes to make his cross-armed defense uniquely effective. (Being a monstrous puncher didn't hurt either. Archie essentially ruined Bobo Olson, previously noted for his durability. When you look at Clay-Moore, you'll notice that young Cassius took no liberties or risks in testing his power.)

Joe Rein claimed not to assess fighters he never personally saw in action, but he made an absolutely brilliant exception well before most others had seen Burley's filmed bout with Oakland Billy Smith. That footage also reflects much of what the Mongoose described of Charley years and years earlier. He passed on the month after turning 75. Interview footage of him late in life reveals a soft spoken character with full mental faculties. (Burley is seated. It can't be ascertained from that snippet whether or not he is physically impaired with arthritis, sciatica or some other hindrance not related to boxing. He worked in sanitation. Making and keeping civilized life possible can wear a body down significantly. During WW II, he worked in a factory making aircraft. Daily physical labor with heavy wear and tear for pay is not a ticket to a long quality of life.)

Eder Jofre gets a free pass at 81 for his public boxing exhibitions and other fitness displays. This is ridiculous:


Vegans who base their dietary practices on idealistic "morality" can shorten their lives and undermine their health and longevity with unhealthy eating habits. (Paavo Airola is the most famous such vegan quack, dying of a stroke at age 64.) Rural Seventh Day Adventists historically seemed to know something about healthy eating habits, and Jofre is among a few athletes who have successfully maintained a high level of performance with that practice. In any event, as an octogenarian, I give him a free pass. I've known too many who succumbed to Alzheimer's who never reached their 80's without ever taking hits to the head. (Women in their 70's today likely did not grow up playing contact sports, or heading soccer balls. Archery and swimming were my mother's sports in college. She didn't know any girls who competed in any sport involving head strikes. Her father's sister was a high school jock during the 1920's, playing basketball, tennis, golf and other sports which had nothing to do with cranial contact as an objective. She was killed in an early 1930's car accident.)

Jofre is not remotely creaky in his movements like the severely arthritic Frazier on the heavy bag in the last years of his life. Eder circles the bag fluidly, and punches quickly with snap and sharp reflexes. Arthritis is a bitch. Some get it, some don't, and there is some evidence that vegan avoidance of mucus forming foods can deflect the onset and impact of gout and arthritis. (Rice is used to make glue. Being a vegan can cripple you if you're ignorant about it. Jofre is obviously no cripple.)
 
May 16, 2013
6,026
760
Brentford
#62
JIMMY BIVINS 92. bloody hell completely forgot. i knew there was somebody in the murders row that people on esb where looking to meet up with personally, i remember a while back that Bivins had no death date on his boxrec. but people couldnt believe that he could still be alive. that thread was made about 2007 im sure of it. and sadly bivins passed away 5 years after in 2012. amazing really. long life, had a tremulteous later life just to be refound and protected by boxing fans.
 

Phantom

Curious member...
May 17, 2013
9,488
2,442
#63
@Boxfan How are you bud?
I was watching a vid recently made, of one of my very favorite fighters, the great Jose Mantequilla Napoles, and though at his age of 77, he was answering questions in a slow, rather feeble voice...and from I read, he's experiencing a deterioration of his health, both mentally as well as physically...but could that be due to the natural consequences of old age, as well as a car crash he suffered a few years ago. He is said not to talk very much, and when he does, he reveals a definite decline in his mental facilities...as in talking of a trip he and his wife made recently to Cuba, but his wife says that trip never happened. When prodded about his glory days, as in his great title winning victory over Curtis Cokes, he said "He didn’t know where all the blows were coming from. I spread mantequilla on him and he didn’t see me.”...He maintains pride in that "I don't get into trouble,..I never harm anyone,...and when it's my time, the ring bell will sound"....
Again, it's hard to tell whether his condition is from punches that he took in his fighting days, or whether it's from the natural decline of old age coupled with the after effects of his car crash ala Ken Norton.
 
Jun 4, 2013
18,673
2,683
34
#64
Terry Norris and Wilfred Benitez can't talk properly because of hits taken in the ring. Benitez has a googly-eye now, not sure what that is all about.
 
Jul 26, 2013
19,390
6,421
#65
@Boxfan How are you bud?
I was watching a vid recently made, of one of my very favorite fighters, the great Jose Mantequilla Napoles, and though at his age of 77, he was answering questions in a slow, rather feeble voice...and from I read, he's experiencing a deterioration of his health, both mentally as well as physically...but could that be due to the natural consequences of old age, as well as a car crash he suffered a few years ago. He is said not to talk very much, and when he does, he reveals a definite decline in his mental facilities...as in talking of a trip he and his wife made recently to Cuba, but his wife says that trip never happened. When prodded about his glory days, as in his great title winning victory over Curtis Cokes, he said "He didn’t know where all the blows were coming from. I spread mantequilla on him and he didn’t see me.”...He maintains pride in that "I don't get into trouble,..I never harm anyone,...and when it's my time, the ring bell will sound"....
Again, it's hard to tell whether his condition is from punches that he took in his fighting days, or whether it's from the natural decline of old age coupled with the after effects of his car crash ala Ken Norton.
Sorry mate. Only just noticed this. Im fine. Hope you OK too. Surprised me a bit this,I thought Naples was long gone. I gather he's still living in Mexico? Shame about the trip to Cuba never happening. However,he could have flown to Cuba in the old days from Mexico,problem being he might not have got back.
Yes,great boxer. Fighting champion,beat a lot of very good men. But I remember him for 2 losses. One when he lost his title to John Stacey,who wouldn't have beat him at his peak,and when he moved up to fight Monzon,who was TWO divisions above him,not one.
Beating Cokes tells us how good he was. Cheers Phantom.
 
Likes: Phantom
Jul 26, 2013
19,390
6,421
#66
This weekend watched Boxnation with Barry Jones,Gary Lockett,and Enzo Macarinelli on. All sharp,all articulate,and all in good humour. All faced top men,in particular Enzo,while still an active boxer did well on the general knowledge show "The Weakest Link"
 
Aug 9, 2017
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65
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#67
Terry Norris is struggling.

He was known to go all-out in sparring, and I'm sure that played a role in his brain damage (same with James Toney). He didn't take any prolonged beatings in fights, his chin didn't allow it.

It wasn't a long drawn out beating but he did take a lot of hard shots in the last minute or two against Keith Mullings. It was quite eye-opening how much slower he looked that night as opposed to a couple fights earlier.

https://www.theverge.com/2014/3/26/5447466/fighting-dirty-behind-boxings-brain-damage-crisis

 
Aug 3, 2017
42
13
#68
Hearns isn't in good shape. In addition to slurring his words (which is not at all the norm for a healthy 58-year-old), he's also having trouble formulating and articulating his thoughts. When he was asked to express his views at a fight a year or two ago, it was so awkward and uncomfortable that they never returned to him.
 

DB Cooper

peel me a grape
May 17, 2013
15,924
3,266
#70
Getting hit to the head repeatedly just isn't good for you and the consequences of it doesn't seem to play favourites either.

Whether fighters have successful records or unsuccessful ones the result of them being repeatedly hit to the head can have equally drastic ramifications.
 
Likes: all at sea
Aug 3, 2017
42
13
#71
Counterintuitive as it may seem at first glance, the answer is to return to bare-knuckle fighting. Gloves aren't intended to protect the head, but the hands. In barehanded combat, you don't throw punches at the skull because you'll wind up breaking your hands. There'd be a lot more instances of broken noses, yes, but a lot fewer of dementia. That's OK, as noses heal but brains don't.
 

PivotPunch

CHB FNC gatekeeper
Aug 1, 2012
9,284
320
#72
Looking at some more recent fighters and their interviews some at least in interviews seem to be doing really well. Obviously Foreman who is now also nearing 70 still seems sharp obviously it might be different once he gets really old but he is still holding up and he had tough fights and not a defensive style.

Also gerry Cooney. he is a bit younger but in his mid 60s and he seem really there mentally allthough he had fewer fights he wasnt a great defensive fighter either.

Another one which is almost suprising is Quawi. He is now 64 and he has been in WARS . His first fight with hoylfield alone would end many fighters' careers and shorten their lives. He had tough fighter for years afterwards up to HW. And he seems sompletely fine no slurred speech, completely there mentally and he speaks really quick and clear.


And the one who really made me go back to this thread: Leroy Cardwell.

I stumbled upon this interview with him


I had no idea who he was so looking at his record: wow. he was a real journeyman. The kind of tough guy who gets beaten up over the years and takes fight after fight. But he shared the ring with ATG HW punchers with the biggest punchers of the golden era. In this video he should be about 70. And he seems completely fine

I have no diea how he is doing so well while guys like Floyd Patterson who and others get dementia early even after they leave the game without any obvious issues. Let alone guys like Bowe and Meldrick Taylor who are obviously punchy in their late 20s already.

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/403
 
Jul 26, 2013
19,390
6,421
#73
Looking at some more recent fighters and their interviews some at least in interviews seem to be doing really well. Obviously Foreman who is now also nearing 70 still seems sharp obviously it might be different once he gets really old but he is still holding up and he had tough fights and not a defensive style.

Also gerry Cooney. he is a bit younger but in his mid 60s and he seem really there mentally allthough he had fewer fights he wasnt a great defensive fighter either.

Another one which is almost suprising is Quawi. He is now 64 and he has been in WARS . His first fight with hoylfield alone would end many fighters' careers and shorten their lives. He had tough fighter for years afterwards up to HW. And he seems sompletely fine no slurred speech, completely there mentally and he speaks really quick and clear.


And the one who really made me go back to this thread: Leroy Cardwell.

I stumbled upon this interview with him


I had no idea who he was so looking at his record: wow. he was a real journeyman. The kind of tough guy who gets beaten up over the years and takes fight after fight. But he shared the ring with ATG HW punchers with the biggest punchers of the golden era. In this video he should be about 70. And he seems completely fine

I have no diea how he is doing so well while guys like Floyd Patterson who and others get dementia early even after they leave the game without any obvious issues. Let alone guys like Bowe and Meldrick Taylor who are obviously punchy in their late 20s already.

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/403
Thanks for posting this mate. Not watched the Caldwell bit yet but didn't he fight Joe Bugner?
Regarding Quawi. He took a lot of punches and ate a lot of porridge. I was actually VERY surprised at how intelligent,articulate and what a nice guy he seemed. Although he took a lot as he said he slipped a lot. Gives the lie to those who say you have to be a good amateur to be able to box. These guys learned on a the job cos they were hungry fighters. Imagine Quawi against Stevenson?
Also Quawi is a Muslim. I wonder if the fact that he probably doesn't drink has preserved his brain cells? Booze is often a road that ex fighters go down. Maybe now even drugs also.
 
Jul 26, 2013
19,390
6,421
#74
Looking at some more recent fighters and their interviews some at least in interviews seem to be doing really well. Obviously Foreman who is now also nearing 70 still seems sharp obviously it might be different once he gets really old but he is still holding up and he had tough fights and not a defensive style.

Also gerry Cooney. he is a bit younger but in his mid 60s and he seem really there mentally allthough he had fewer fights he wasnt a great defensive fighter either.

Another one which is almost suprising is Quawi. He is now 64 and he has been in WARS . His first fight with hoylfield alone would end many fighters' careers and shorten their lives. He had tough fighter for years afterwards up to HW. And he seems sompletely fine no slurred speech, completely there mentally and he speaks really quick and clear.


And the one who really made me go back to this thread: Leroy Cardwell.

I stumbled upon this interview with him


I had no idea who he was so looking at his record: wow. he was a real journeyman. The kind of tough guy who gets beaten up over the years and takes fight after fight. But he shared the ring with ATG HW punchers with the biggest punchers of the golden era. In this video he should be about 70. And he seems completely fine

I have no diea how he is doing so well while guys like Floyd Patterson who and others get dementia early even after they leave the game without any obvious issues. Let alone guys like Bowe and Meldrick Taylor who are obviously punchy in their late 20s already.

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/403
Just watched Caldwell. See what I mean about hungry fighters? I don't know any British fighters who came off the streets to take a fight. Against Gerry Coetzee?
 

Duo

Bosomus Maximus
Jun 14, 2012
6,421
3,109
#75
Looking at some more recent fighters and their interviews some at least in interviews seem to be doing really well. Obviously Foreman who is now also nearing 70 still seems sharp obviously it might be different once he gets really old but he is still holding up and he had tough fights and not a defensive style.

Also Gerry Cooney. he is a bit younger but in his mid 60s and he seem really there mentally allthough he had fewer fights he wasnt a great defensive fighter either.

Another one which is almost suprising is Qawi. He is now 64 and he has been in WARS . His first fight with hoylfield alone would end many fighters' careers and shorten their lives. He had tough fighter for years afterwards up to HW. And he seems sompletely fine no slurred speech, completely there mentally and he speaks really quick and clear.


And the one who really made me go back to this thread: Leroy Caldwell.

I stumbled upon this interview with him


I had no idea who he was so looking at his record: wow. he was a real journeyman. The kind of tough guy who gets beaten up over the years and takes fight after fight. But he shared the ring with ATG HW punchers with the biggest punchers of the golden era. In this video he should be about 70. And he seems completely fine

I have no idea how he is doing so well while guys like Floyd Patterson who and others get dementia early even after they leave the game without any obvious issues. Let alone guys like Bowe and Meldrick Taylor who are obviously punchy in their late 20s already.

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/403
Malcolm "Flash" Gordon always praised Qawi's defensive skills effusively in "Tonight's Boxing Program," enthusing after Qawi-Saad Muhammad II that, "Like a fabulous José Naples master of defense, he never takes a backwards step...always keeping his lead foot between his opponent's feet..." He wasn't sneering at his opponents in showing his white mouthpiece, but as his trainers Quenzell McCall and Wesley Mouzon made clear, breathing through his mouth was simply too long ingrained a habit to change by the time they began working with Dwight. (Qawi, as he comes out of his corner to begin his rounds indeed has his mouth closed over his mouthpiece for a few seconds, then exposes it as soon as he begins breathing with the action.)

Boxing with an open mouth is an invitation to getting a broken jaw. That nothing like this ever happened to Qawi shows what tremendous defensive skill he had in rolling with rights, blocking hooks, and deploying the best counter jab and ring cutting technique of his era.

Regarding Leroy Caldwell, I hope some of his televised late career wins pop up online. Fans in Las Vegas would be chanting his name as he stood in place slipping an attacker's shots, and his bout with a post Berbick Big John Tate was also televised. Although John, nine years younger at 27, was clearly superior, and Caldwell was no threat to hurt him, Leroy was very clearly having fun in a nationally televised opportunity as his career was drawing to a close. He started boxing professionally when in his mid 20's, greatly improved with experience, and was in the mould of guys like George Chaplin, Bob Stallings, Stan Ward, and reportedly Ted Lowry, an opponent who posed little risk as a knockout menace, but could be counted on to extend somebody who needed rounds of work.

Gerrie Coetzee was his final stoppage defeat. Tate never had him in trouble, despite Big John desperately needing to be impressive in his last major televised opportunity.

Jimmy Young and Goyo Peralta are among the upper weight patron saints of Leroy's ilk. (Whitehurst isn't somebody I include here, because Bert was a runner. Late career Caldwell didn't use his legs to elude shots.)

Fine article on Leroy over a decade back:

http://www.thesweetscience.com/articles-of-2006/4760-leroy-caldwell-subtle-and-quiet-dignity

Leroy wasn't a clutching spoiler, or a runner, but somebody who was fun to watch take lesser opponents to school, got some significant bouts with decent exposure at career's end, and may have finished up performing at the highest level of his potential. Going back to ESB Classic, I've been extolling Caldwell for over a decade. Obviously I'm pleased he's now seen speaking for himself, but I'd sure like to see those late career broadcasts of this sage veteran in winning action as his Las Vegas faithful chant his name. When you see him box, you realize he was no kind of punching bag.

Bert Whitehurst died of a heart attack at age 49. Boxing had nothing to do with that. It appears to have been a surprise, like Max Baer at age 50, three days after energetically refereeing Zora Folley and Alonzo Johnson for ten rounds in his clownish way (playing to the crowd and athletically vaulting over the top rope after it was over, according to Jimmy Cannon). There's likely a congenital issue with early deaths like theirs. (Maxie had let himself get flabby, but he certainly wasn't a 500 pound Buster Mathis. Clean living and a daily three mile jog like Jack Sharkey's wouldn't have saved the Larruper from an early grave. Even today, a marathon champion turned cardiologist like Norbert Sander, Jr. can die suddenly of a heart attack in 2017.)

Tiger Ted Lowry was good and happy to receive salutations to the end of his life at 90. Just how good was his functioning and condition at age 89? Take a look!:


Of course the way he moves simply means he dodged the crippling arthritis bullet, but walking downstairs in the completely unimpaired way he does is nonetheless remarkable, the way a physically unimpaired retired athlete might be expected to. 1176 professional rounds over 143 bouts covering 16 years against his level of opposition does not typically result in the clarity of speech and quality of mind Ted demonstrates here. (Archie Moore boxed 1473 professional rounds in 220 bouts. The Mongoose's less than 300 more rounds reflects his record knockout total. Pep had 1955 rounds in his 241 bouts, and news reports attributing his death at 84 to dementia pugilistica is presumptuous. Plenty of people were guided around the IBHOF by Willie or otherwise met him there, and he was perfectly fine well past an age where he can get a free pass for mental decline. Joe Rein said Pep would have sold his left nut for an erasure, but in a televised interview, Willie contradicted this, cautioning, "I could hurt you!" His second round left hook body shot knockout of Jimmy MacAllister is a filmed textbook example of how to properly execute this blow to produce a full count out, and his jaw fracturing right cross to take out Bartolo in their third bout to consolidate all FW Title claims was the only time Sal was laid out for ten in 98 bouts. Pep boxed frequently for the money, and used the tactics he did to permit that. Bartolo III and MacAllister show he could be extremely dangerous when going for the kill prior to his plane crash.)
 
Likes: nuclear

PivotPunch

CHB FNC gatekeeper
Aug 1, 2012
9,284
320
#76
@Boxfan
yeah I'm sure living clean helps. And yes Quawi had good defence he was really skilled. Still he had tough fights not because he was lacking in skill but because he fought great opponents and because as a 5'6LHW/CW/HW with his style you do get hit. Even if you get hit less % wise than most boxers simply fighting the way he does made his opponents unload at him and the Holyfield fight was insane.

Caldwell seems like a really interesting story just like many of the "elite" journeymen throughout the history of boxing. Nice to see that he's doing well so far health wise.

@Duo

Thanks for the info so he was one of these underachieveing but dangerous journeymen a la Darnell Boone. Still with all the skill still he fought from about 23 to 39 which and has a few tko and ko losses on his record. Among that guys like Lyle, Shavers and Foreman. Granted I don't know how much damage he relaly took in these losses there are many types of kos and tkos but many boxers had shorter careers and are damaged.

Speaking about guys like Pep. I agree that with Pep its interesting. CTE/dementia pugilistica or even dementia in general isnt very well understood yet so how exactly it played a part with pep is hard to say. Safe to say it didn't help him but maybe he would have dveeloped it either way but simply later in life who knows. Reading about pep it seems that he was in good health for a while and only suffered from dementia in the last 6 or so years of his life. Maybe his symptoms simply didn'tz progress for a while and only showed at an old age, maybe it was the fights along with old age and a natural disposition towards it who knows.

But still guys like pep were defensive masters and Pep far more than that was really a spoiler and let#s be honest would be far far froma fan favourite today. But even Ingemar Johannson suffered from dementia late in life. And he had a relatively short career and retired young. Certainly not a tougher career than leroy Caldwell. Allthough both caldwell and Quawi did start later in life which may be a factor.
Who knows not even medical professionals know that much about dementia at the moment.


And wow Ted Lowry might be the most impressive case of a boxer who ahs stayed healthy I've seen so far. Jake Lamotta has incredible genetics with the career he had fighting so many wars and often dehydrated and weak. But for years now he seems to be not there mentally. Which tbf many people his age who never boxed aren't either (if they even reach his age). But save to say that now he has some kind of dementia whatever the source is. Same with Jimmy Bivins who was in pretty good shape at an old age as well but reportedly had issues and dementia at an old age.

But lowry seems completely fine like he doesn't even seem anywhere close to 90 in that video, speaks well, thinks well, moves well, can care for himself and up until the end of his life seemed healthier, fitter and sharper than many 70 year olds who never ever boxed. That's remarkable.


Archie moore is another one. Here in an interview shortly before his death. YOu obviously can't tell everything from just one interview but he seems about as clear mentally here as you would expect from someone who is about 84 and while he talks a bit slow it seems just the way a regular healthy 84 year old would seem. And Moore had a TON of fights including some really tough ones and is along with Duran one of the longest competing fighters I can think of.



Speaking of Duran obviously he also seems good mentally and while I don't speak Spanish his speech seems fine. The remarkable thing about Duran also is that while he had amazing ATG defence unlike Quawi and some other he started boxing at a young age. Most impressive if his not so old video whee he does sparring with Sergio Mora and looks at least 3 decades younger than he really is.


In a sport where you almost expect any really accomplished pro to have visible mental damage it's nice to see some who are doing fine or even better than many people who have never put their brain through any trauma.
 
Jul 26, 2013
19,390
6,421
#77
@Boxfan
yeah I'm sure living clean helps. And yes Quawi had good defence he was really skilled. Still he had tough fights not because he was lacking in skill but because he fought great opponents and because as a 5'6LHW/CW/HW with his style you do get hit. Even if you get hit less % wise than most boxers simply fighting the way he does made his opponents unload at him and the Holyfield fight was insane.

Caldwell seems like a really interesting story just like many of the "elite" journeymen throughout the history of boxing. Nice to see that he's doing well so far health wise.

@Duo

Thanks for the info so he was one of these underachieveing but dangerous journeymen a la Darnell Boone. Still with all the skill still he fought from about 23 to 39 which and has a few tko and ko losses on his record. Among that guys like Lyle, Shavers and Foreman. Granted I don't know how much damage he relaly took in these losses there are many types of kos and tkos but many boxers had shorter careers and are damaged.

Speaking about guys like Pep. I agree that with Pep its interesting. CTE/dementia pugilistica or even dementia in general isnt very well understood yet so how exactly it played a part with pep is hard to say. Safe to say it didn't help him but maybe he would have dveeloped it either way but simply later in life who knows. Reading about pep it seems that he was in good health for a while and only suffered from dementia in the last 6 or so years of his life. Maybe his symptoms simply didn'tz progress for a while and only showed at an old age, maybe it was the fights along with old age and a natural disposition towards it who knows.

But still guys like pep were defensive masters and Pep far more than that was really a spoiler and let#s be honest would be far far froma fan favourite today. But even Ingemar Johannson suffered from dementia late in life. And he had a relatively short career and retired young. Certainly not a tougher career than leroy Caldwell. Allthough both caldwell and Quawi did start later in life which may be a factor.
Who knows not even medical professionals know that much about dementia at the moment.


And wow Ted Lowry might be the most impressive case of a boxer who ahs stayed healthy I've seen so far. Jake Lamotta has incredible genetics with the career he had fighting so many wars and often dehydrated and weak. But for years now he seems to be not there mentally. Which tbf many people his age who never boxed aren't either (if they even reach his age). But save to say that now he has some kind of dementia whatever the source is. Same with Jimmy Bivins who was in pretty good shape at an old age as well but reportedly had issues and dementia at an old age.

But lowry seems completely fine like he doesn't even seem anywhere close to 90 in that video, speaks well, thinks well, moves well, can care for himself and up until the end of his life seemed healthier, fitter and sharper than many 70 year olds who never ever boxed. That's remarkable.


Archie moore is another one. Here in an interview shortly before his death. YOu obviously can't tell everything from just one interview but he seems about as clear mentally here as you would expect from someone who is about 84 and while he talks a bit slow it seems just the way a regular healthy 84 year old would seem. And Moore had a TON of fights including some really tough ones and is along with Duran one of the longest competing fighters I can think of.



Speaking of Duran obviously he also seems good mentally and while I don't speak Spanish his speech seems fine. The remarkable thing about Duran also is that while he had amazing ATG defence unlike Quawi and some other he started boxing at a young age. Most impressive if his not so old video whee he does sparring with Sergio Mora and looks at least 3 decades younger than he really is.


In a sport where you almost expect any really accomplished pro to have visible mental damage it's nice to see some who are doing fine or even better than many people who have never put their brain through any trauma.
Just watched the Moore interview Pivot Punch. I can't say how much I admire this guys memory. You can see it from the interviewers attitude. Not only a great fighter a great human being. Modest but not falsely modest. For example saying Billy Conn didn't want to fight him. I bet he didn't. Would I be correct in saying there was still a bit of a colour bar in operation in his day? Joey Maxim knocked out our own Freddie Mills,but couldn't handle Archie. Harold Johnson was a GREAT boxer but was beat numerous times. Fantastic guy.
 
Jul 26, 2013
19,390
6,421
#78
While on the subject of Freddie Mills,I remember him as a TV personality when I was a kid. Didn't see him very often as it was always on somebody else TV. But he didn't seem affected by the many wars he had,some of which by much bigger men. Plus his early years on the boxing booths. Tragic death though.
 
Jun 11, 2014
6,622
6,443
scotland
#79
While on the subject of Freddie Mills,I remember him as a TV personality when I was a kid. Didn't see him very often as it was always on somebody else TV. But he didn't seem affected by the many wars he had,some of which by much bigger men. Plus his early years on the boxing booths. Tragic death though.
Did Mills not suffer from really bad headaches after he retired?
 
Jul 26, 2013
19,390
6,421
#80
Did Mills not suffer from really bad headaches after he retired?
Now you come to mention it mate I believe he did. Apparently he was a small light heavy but he fought bigger guys,albeit not massive heavyweights by todays standards. Joe Baksi and Bruce Woodcock. He suffered bad Los,one against Maxim and another by Lloyd Marshall. My uncle was at the latter fight and told me he was lifted off his feet. So a hard career. The headaches are not surprising but he didn't seem to show classic signs of being punchdrunk.
 
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