Who is the most evil woman ever?

Haggis

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Maybe separate private individuals (Rose West, Elizabeth Bathory) from political leaders. Have one nomination for each.

I guess most of the board will nominate Maggie, who are some other contenders?

:hat
 

Haggis

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Ilse Koch...the Bitch of Buchenwald was/is a strong contender for the honor.
Yes she is, for sure. Strong case, to be the most notoriously cruel and inhumane woman working at any Nazi death camp.

Sounds like it didn't end well for her, though. She killed herself in 1967.

"Koch hanged herself at Aichach women's prison on 1 September 1967 at age 60. She suffered from delusions and had become convinced that concentration camp survivors would abuse her in her cell."

Apparently she had one son who killed himself after the war because of the shame of having her as his mother. Her other son was conceived in jail after the war, he was taken for adoption and only found out who his mother was when he was 19.






:hat
 
Oct 22, 2012
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That queen of Madagascar who killed a fair portion of her own people is one candidate.

I forget her name.

The combination of regular warfare, disease, difficult forced labor and harsh trials by ordeal using a poisonous nut from the Tangena shrub resulted in a high mortality rate among both soldiers and civilians during her 33-year reign, with Madagascar's population reducing from 5 million in 1833 to 2.5 million in 1839.

EDIT : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranavalona_I
 
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Phantom

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May 17, 2013
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Yes she is, for sure. Strong case, to be the most notoriously cruel and inhumane woman working at any Nazi death camp.

Sounds like it didn't end well for her, though. She killed herself in 1967.

"Koch hanged herself at Aichach women's prison on 1 September 1967 at age 60. She suffered from delusions and had become convinced that concentration camp survivors would abuse her in her cell."

Apparently she had one son who killed himself after the war because of the shame of having her as his mother. Her other son was conceived in jail after the war, he was taken for adoption and only found out who his mother was when he was 19.






:hat
She had lampshades fashioned from the skins of concentration camp inmates at Buchenwald. A lovely lady.
 

Haggis

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She had lampshades fashioned from the skins of concentration camp inmates at Buchenwald. A lovely lady.
Apparently there's some debate about that, I'm not sure they ever definitively found that lamp, though it doesn't seem to be hearsay or urban legend. A couple of people testified that it was a goatskin lamp, others claimed that it was human skin with visible tattoos and nipples.

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Yeah, I think the lampshades thing has many issues with its validity, but even then, the rest of her crimes, the pain and horrors she inflicted are much worse.

Was she the same woman who would sic guard dogs on women inmates?
 

Haggis

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For non-State actors - criminals/random nutters, Australians will probably know of Katherine Knight, who is a legit demon woman. The only woman in Australian history to be given a natural life prison term, with no possibility of parole, ever. And rightly so.




:hat
 
May 23, 2013
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Yeah, I think the lampshades thing has many issues with its validity, but even then, the rest of her crimes, the pain and horrors she inflicted are much worse.

Was she the same woman who would sic guard dogs on women inmates?
not trying to stick up for her but....

I think some Nazi’s can be excused..
The younger ones who where indoctrinated..

those whose parents joined the Nazi party early and then those kids got brainwashed by parents, teachers, sport coaches etc etc

if you take kids between 5 and 10 and every adult with influence on their lives teach them that Jews etc are non humans and that in case of war they gotta be ruthless etc etc they grow up with a twisted look on reality..

can you really hold them totally responsible for their actions ??

those days where not like today with internet and free information gathering etc etc
 

Haggis

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not trying to stick up for her but....

I think some Nazi’s can be excused..
The younger ones who where indoctrinated..

those whose parents joined the Nazi party early and then those kids got brainwashed by parents, teachers, sport coaches etc etc

if you take kids between 5 and 10 and every adult with influence on their lives teach them that Jews etc are non humans and that in case of war they gotta be ruthless etc etc they grow up with a twisted look on reality..

can you really hold them totally responsible for their actions ??

those days where not like today with internet and free information gathering etc etc
She was 33 in 1939.

:hat
 
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Haggis

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Elizabeth Bathory?

Hungarian noblewoman who tortured, mutilated, and murdered hundreds of peasant girls.


Bathory is definitely on the first ballot, but I think a lot of the legends around her are wildly exaggerated. She wasn't THAT powerful a noble - there were only so many villages on her family's lands, and therefore only so many peasants for her to kill, before she would have run into serious problems on multiple fronts.

Same with the stories about her bathing in blood. To fill a tub even halfway, that's a LOT of blood. Many people's worth - the average adult only has about 5 litres of blood, and how far towards filling your tub does two big bottles of Coke go? Plus of course, it coagulates within minutes.

Seems almost inevitable that the number of her victims and some of her depravity is exaggerated....... but that she still deserves serious consideration for the title, anyway. :thumbsup

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BigBone

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Bathory is definitely on the first ballot, but I think a lot of the legends around her are wildly exaggerated. She wasn't THAT powerful a noble - there were only so many villages on her family's lands, and therefore only so many peasants for her to kill, before she would have run into serious problems on multiple fronts.

Same with the stories about her bathing in blood. To fill a tub even halfway, that's a LOT of blood. Many people's worth - the average adult only has about 5 litres of blood, and how far towards filling your tub does two big bottles of Coke go? Plus of course, it coagulates within minutes.

Seems almost inevitable that the number of her victims and some of her depravity is exaggerated....... but that she still deserves serious consideration for the title, anyway. :thumbsup

:hat
As a Hungarian I'm very proud of have such a strong female character in our history making today's pro-women times look back in awe, but you do know that these stories were complete fabrication by her political opposition that later became pulp legend? I mean all of it, not exaggeration. As a strong woman and widow (inheriting his late husband's political opposition) she had far more power over land and ppl. than most women in those centuries, and far more influence in court, that made many (mostly Austrian lords, where Hitler is from), jealous and looking to put their hands on her estates.

So they sent a protestant priest, István Magyar to make up "occult" and "satanist" rumors and paid/threatened witnesses in a show trial where she was, as these things historically went down those fine days, tortured to sign a force confession. In reality, we know that she managed her estates quite well, supported education, arts and hospitals, but never really had the right allies to go medieval on his late husband's opposition, who looked at her as a weak woman in manly times, and got her to court. Of course that resulted in some great legends, our literature loves her character too. Too bad it's all fiction.
 
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Haggis

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As a Hungarian I'm very proud of have such a strong female character in our history making today's pro-women times look back in awe, but you do know that these stories were complete fabrication by her political opposition that later became pulp legend? I mean all of it, not exaggeration. As a strong woman and widow (inheriting his late husband's political opposition) she had far more power over land and ppl. than most women in those centuries, and far more influence in court, that made many (mostly Austrian lords, where Hitler is from), jealous and looking to put their hands on her estates.

So they sent a protestant priest, István Magyar to make up "occult" and "satanist" rumors and paid/threatened witnesses in a show trial where she was, as these things historically went down those fine days, tortured to sign a force confession. In reality, we know that she managed her estates quite well, supported education, arts and hospitals, but never really had the right allies to go medieval on his late husband's opposition, who looked at her as a weak woman in manly times, and got her to court. Of course that resulted in some great legends, our literature loves her character too. Too bad it's all fiction.
I don't believe it's ALL fiction. There were many women who found themselves in the (relative) same position as she did, and while they certainly weren't respected as the male rulers were, they certainly weren't all painted as sadistic murderesses either. Besides, they (to my knowledge) didn't accuse her of being a witch or a demon or being in league with Satan - they accused her of being a sadistic psychopath. Which is quite possible. :thumbsup

:hat
 

BigBone

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I don't believe it's ALL fiction. There were many women who found themselves in the (relative) same position as she did, and while they certainly weren't respected as the male rulers were, they certainly weren't all painted as sadistic murderesses either. Besides, they (to my knowledge) didn't accuse her of being a witch or a demon or being in league with Satan - they accused her of being a sadistic psychopath. Which is quite possible. :thumbsup

:hat
Everything is possible, historians just found the possibilities in the legends utter fiction, and the source of this fiction. Then again, makes cool gothic novels, so I guess she deserved to die in prison for us all.
 

Haggis

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Everything is possible, historians just found the possibilities in the legends utter fiction, and the source of this fiction. Then again, makes cool gothic novels, so I guess she deserved to die in prison for us all.
Which possibilities in the legends? She didn't bathe in blood, what else is there?

:hat
 

BigBone

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Which possibilities in the legends? She didn't bathe in blood, what else is there?

:hat
She didn't do any of the things legends say as far as historical evidence goes, and there's evidence of conspiracy and show trial. I guess that's 2020s enough so Apple could do a PC series where fat, evil white Christian men put an innocent woman on trial, but I'd prefer the HBO version where they show her opposition's pipe dreams of Liz vs. peasant girls go full gothic sex horror. Amber Heard could play the evil version. :lol:
 
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May 23, 2013
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As a Hungarian I'm very proud of have such a strong female character in our history making today's pro-women times look back in awe, but you do know that these stories were complete fabrication by her political opposition that later became pulp legend? I mean all of it, not exaggeration. As a strong woman and widow (inheriting his late husband's political opposition) she had far more power over land and ppl. than most women in those centuries, and far more influence in court, that made many (mostly Austrian lords, where Hitler is from), jealous and looking to put their hands on her estates.

So they sent a protestant priest, István Magyar to make up "occult" and "satanist" rumors and paid/threatened witnesses in a show trial where she was, as these things historically went down those fine days, tortured to sign a force confession. In reality, we know that she managed her estates quite well, supported education, arts and hospitals, but never really had the right allies to go medieval on his late husband's opposition, who looked at her as a weak woman in manly times, and got her to court. Of course that resulted in some great legends, our literature loves her character too. Too bad it's all fiction.
what are you lying ???

you say : they send a Protestant priest

Priest is catholic

protestant have vickers but not priests and not nons