Why has Britain produced some of the worst people in history?

May 16, 2013
19,170
7,767
Scotland
#81
Cromwell is far closer to being justifiably called a genocide than the famine. For a kick off the famine by its very nature was caused by a random crop disease. Secondly, when it began, the PM (Peel) bought £100,000 of corn from the US to send to Ireland. A pretty odd move for a government trying to wipe a people out. The Queen herself gave money to the famine, and although the bulk of the government did not give a fuck about the suffering and deaths, they ended up rescinding the corn laws. When Peel went it got worse and for sure they let people die, but the country took in thousands upon thousands of Irish migrants. Liverpool's demographics changed immeasurably, they became hugely Irish because Irish refugees/migrants (whatever term you want) were not turned away, but were allowed to settle.

To call that a genocide is simply false. It would be like Hitler taking in Jews fleeing Poland into Germany and allowing them to settle. The famine started in 1845. By 1847, the British government was spending money on relief efforts with soup kitchens in Ireland, but of course also did tons to make it worse by working on the notion that the Irish should be responsible for themselves and by allowing land owners from England to fuck the poor and starving out of their homes.

It was disgraceful, but an attempt at genocide? No chance at all. You do not have the Royal Family and the two successive governments spend money on relief efforts (however inadequate) and also take in thousands of refugees fleeing the danger if you are trying to wipe a people out.
It was.

A few token gestures done absolutely nothing to offset their very deliberate efforts to exacerbate the conditions, as per Matty's response.

Now, wether you think that constitutes an attempt at genocide is up to you but to me it undoubtedly was.
 
Jun 4, 2012
24,663
14,538
#82
It was.

A few token gestures done absolutely nothing to offset their very deliberate efforts to exacerbate the conditions, as per Matty's response.

Now, wether you think that constitutes an attempt at genocide is up to you but to me it undoubtedly was.
Well it objectively isn't. You don't try and wipe an entire people out and then send relief efforts to them, allow tens of thousands of those very people to come and live freely in your country so they don't die and secretly spend money buying food for them from a nation that you were fairly recently a major rival of.

Why would a nation attempting genocide make "token gestures" to stop people dying? They believed in the markets and lots of them simply didn't give a shit about how many died. But entire laws were changed to rectify some of the problems. Name another genocide where the nation attempting it allows people fleeing it to come and live under their protection? It's a complete oxymoron.
 
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May 16, 2013
19,170
7,767
Scotland
#83
Well it objectively isn't. You don't try and wipe an entire people out and then send relief efforts to them, allow tens of thousands of those very people to come and live freely in your country so they don't die and secretly spend money buying food for them from a nation that you were fairly recently a major rival of.

Why would a nation attempting genocide make "token gestures" to stop people dying? They believed in the markets and lots of them simply didn't give a shit about how many died. But entire laws were changed to rectify some of the problems. Name another genocide where the nation attempting it allows people fleeing it to come and live under their protection? It's a complete oxymoron.
Slight of hand move.

The plan was to murder those 'refugeess' after Ireland was cleared.

Sneaky bastards.
 
Jun 4, 2012
24,663
14,538
#84
Slight of hand move.

The plan was to murder those 'refugeess' after Ireland was cleared.

Sneaky bastards.
:lol:

I reckon the East India were worse than any actual government we have had. It's mad how fucking horrible most people were back in the day though. It's weird to think we are essentially no different to ancestors who took their kids along to watch people be disemboweled and saw cats being burnt alive as a form of comedy show.
 
May 16, 2013
19,170
7,767
Scotland
#85
:lol:

I reckon the East India were worse than any actual government we have had. It's mad how fucking horrible most people were back in the day though. It's weird to think we are essentially no different to ancestors who took their kids along to watch people be disemboweled and saw cats being burnt alive as a form of comedy show.
It's madder that there's still places in the world that place that same value, or lack of, on life. Scary as fuck, really.
 
Jun 4, 2012
24,663
14,538
#86
It's madder that there's still places in the world that place that same value, or lack of, on life. Scary as fuck, really.
Yeah true. But it will change, the more places have structure and the more people live longer, more comfortable lives and are exposed to outside ideas etc...the more it will change. But it is mad to think that it is still like the 1600's in some places. Florida for example.
 
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Nov 10, 2014
972
307
#87
Peter Sutcliffe
Paul McCartney
Fred West
Winston Churchill wasn't an angel
Iain Duncan Smith
Simon Cowell destroyed the music business
All of the prominent Royal Family members
The Royals are among my favorite people. I do like the rest of your list though.
 

Haggis

CHB World Championship People's Champion
May 16, 2013
30,096
8,893
#88
:lol:

I reckon the East India were worse than any actual government we have had. It's mad how fucking horrible most people were back in the day though. It's weird to think we are essentially no different to ancestors who took their kids along to watch people be disemboweled and saw cats being burnt alive as a form of comedy show.
I have read that at its height, the East India company had a market valuation of somewhere around seven trillion US dollars in today's money. That's crazy power.

:hat
 
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Tko6

The Original Maximus
May 19, 2013
6,873
3,453
Jay's mums house
#89
It's no great mystery. The sheer size of the Empire gave our nutters the opportunity to be horrible on a grand scale. There are probably many more horrible people born in the past and today, but they're not given that opportunity to be a cunt on a grand scale because they are in some shithole village somewhere. People are talking about the likes of Thatcher like she's worse than any one of a number of dudes in Africa that engage in murder, rape and hacking people's limbs off every single day. Shit, Stalin and Hitler alone killed more people over 30 years than the Empire did over 300. Imagine just how cunty they would have been with a worldwide empire to rule over. We'd probably be looking at a billion murders, at least.
 
Jun 4, 2012
24,663
14,538
#90
:lol:

Ludicrous too. Old empires used to go into cities, have every man beheaded, order every child clubbed to death, all the elderly women murdered and those of breeding age taken to be used as rape toys for the conquering soldiers. The Aztecs would not only wipe out rivals in totality, they would take with them thousands of prisoners whose one role was to be brutally tortured and sacrificed. Some flayed alive, some having their hearts cut out in front of them.

In the opening of one temple, the Aztecs sacrificed between 10,000 - 80,000 prisoners in 4 days!

When Rome destroyed Carthage, they killed 350,000 of the 400,000 people, enslaved all of the survivors, and destroyed the city in its entirety. Gone.

The Mongol empire would kill every, single person in a city or land that resisted them. Literally 100% of a people butchered and the city razed to the ground. To say that not doing much to help relieve the Irish famine and not caring how many died by only making "token gestures", while allowing refugees to come and live in England is the exact moral equivalent of the above is so ridiculous that it shows a complete inability to speak objectively on the topic.
 

Foreman Hook

Old Foreman with an eye patch & a peg leg
Jun 6, 2012
16,259
592
Sunnyvale Trailer Park
#93
Yes a LOT softer than most. Compare it even to smaller less powerful cultures like the Maoris before New Zealand was colonised, and the brutality does not compare. The Mongols? The Huns? The Aztecs? The Belgians in the The Congo? The Nazis? The Khmer Rouge? The Japanese in WW2?

Britain committed appalling acts as an Empire, all Empires have. Compared to most empires it pales into insignificance to the wholesale slaughter that many carried out, or the brutal torture for fun that the likes of the Romans put on. It's just because our empire was more recent in the main. As time has gone on, societies have moved into less and less brutal behavioural norms. If our Empire had been at its most powerful in the 1400's it would have behaved even worse than the one we had did. If the Maoris had been able to take over the world, it would have made our Empire look like saints.

That's not a defence of what Britain did, the cynicism, racism, exploitation, murder and rapes that were committed. But it's just an objective reality.
I don't see me getting anywhere debating my view in this thread, least of all against you Strike, the sharpest poster. However I'll be back when I'm not depressed about needing my medicine.
 
May 16, 2013
3,554
255
105
Finland
#94
I am curious of your opinions. Just a list of people/things that Britain/British people have been involved in.

The British Empire. Britain committed some of the worst atrocities in history during this period

Guy Fawkes, crazy ass.

Queen Mary I (Bloody Mary)

The Tudor period. Was a bloodthirsty, death ridden period, led by Henry the 8th who was a savage.

Jack the ripper

Winston Churchill. Although a hero when needed in Britain. He also made decisions which killed many, like the Bengal Famine. Had pretty shitty opinions too.

General Reginald Dyer (The butcher of Amritsar)

Oliver Cromwell

Some of the worst and best pirates in history came from this island, but being the "best" also involved stealing and killing many people.

Thoughts? Can you add any more I've forgot about?
...and this guy:

 
Jul 25, 2012
5,264
1,202
#97
I am curious of your opinions. Just a list of people/things that Britain/British people have been involved in.
……...
Thoughts? Can you add any more I've forgot about?

Yes,we are a nation of "firsts" :


Edward Longshanks aka the Hammer of the Sc*ts , took some of the the shine off his Obama-like victory over notorious Sc*ttish terrorist ,Wallace,by becoming the first European morarch to expel the Joos






Also first nation to come up with concentrations camps( perfected 40 years later by Germany) , for the internment of Boer civilians , during the Second Boer War.

 
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