[Swarmer]

And look at him now. Mid round stoppage over Andy Lee, and is continuing to improve in his own way after each bout. People always seemed to bag him for his dad or maybe even his work ethic, calling him a bum and shit.... I have to say its refreshing to see a boxer totally ignore all the shit people talk about him and rise above, improve, and succeed expectations.

I reckon he won't be easy game for Maravilla, an entertaining fight at the least. What say you?

 

[SimonTemplar]

I agree with you. I think that being his father's son helped open the initial doors, but has made it harder to mark himself out as a good fighter in his own right. It also did not help that he was gifted a belt, that was not a fair way to get a title and led, rightly, to criticism. Although that is tough for JCC, as he could hardly say 'no thanks' to the title, most people in is position would not. But either way, both of those issues have held him back from getting sufficient credit, imho.

I picked him to beat Lee handily before the fight, but did not think that it would be that handily.

But I have always found Lee a little robotic and limited, so impressive though the win was, it was not much prep for Martinez, imho. I think that Martinez will beat him, but in a manner that finally puts JCC on a true world championship level in the eyes of all fans, rather than a few.

But I'm glad about how things are going for JCC right now, finally!

 

[Flea Man]

@Swarmer Sergio is overrated. I've already picked Jr. Martinez's mid round lulls will cost him here IMO.

 

[Swarmer]

@Swarmer Sergio is overrated. I've already picked Jr. Martinez's mid round lulls will cost him here IMO.

Martinez isnt the best stamina manager.

Yep. I'd also like to mention that ol Serg has had trouble against swarming types in the past for sure, i gotta say this has to be probably the toughest thing he's faced in a while.

Either way its going to be a great fight

 

[charles bronson]

I didn't realize that Jr didn't have much of an amateur career. Only two fights. The kid's been learning on the job.

 

[Flea Man]

I think if some of the decisions that should've gone against Jr had done then I don't he'd be as dismissed.

Fact is, he's seen as a manafactured fighter. He's not, but his '0' has been manufactured. There was no need for it. He still would've got the opportunities if he'd lost some decisions and been a crap fighter (look at Ronald Hearns) and as it is he has improved regardless of how tough he found the likes of Matt Vanda (and Carlos Molina :hey)

He's taken on loads of journeymen, grown into his physique, hit his physical peak at a good camp and has now beaten a couple of solid fringe contenders.

He's as feasible a challenge to Martinez as anyone else in the division, none of whom have really run through masses of quality contenders. He's looked better in his last few fights than Barker or Macklin did in theirs.

Will he beat Sergio? In all seriousness, I'm not really tipping him for glory. Both guys have weaknesses the other could potentially exploit. Sergio more athletic, Chavez bigger. It's got everything IMO. As good a fight you'll see at 160 this year IMO.

If Sergio gets to Chavez, then it's a very impressive win for him. The Mexican is a big, tough and game contender. Nothing more, nothing less. Back in the day there was nothing wrong with that

 

[Scotty]

I don't think Martinez is lacking in stamina. He always gets a second wind going down the straight. Hard to believe how much Jr has impressed since he fought Billy Lyell

 

[Flea Man]

@Mr Gilfoid agreed, my point is that Jr will come on strong in the mid rounds where Martinez is sorely lacking.

 

[SimonTemplar]

I think if some of the decisions that should've gone against Jr had done then I don't he'd be as dismissed.

Fact is, he's seen as a manafactured fighter. He's not, but his '0' has been manufactured. There was no need for it. He still would've got the opportunities if he'd lost some decisions and been a crap fighter (look at Ronald Hearns) and as it is he has improved regardless of how tough he found the likes of Matt Vanda (and Carlos Molina :hey)

He's taken on loads of journeymen, grown into his physique, hit his physical peak at a good camp and has now beaten a couple of solid fringe contenders.

He's as feasible a challenge to Martinez as anyone else in the division, none of whom have really run through masses of quality contenders. He's looked better in his last few fights than Barker or Macklin did in theirs.

Will he beat Sergio? In all seriousness, I'm not really tipping him for glory. Both guys have weaknesses the other could potentially exploit. Sergio more athletic, Chavez bigger. It's got everything IMO. As good a fight you'll see at 160 this year IMO.

If Sergio gets to Chavez, then it's a very impressive win for him. The Mexican is a big, tough and game contender. Nothing more, nothing less. Back in the day there was nothing wrong with that

@Flea Man I tell you what, now I approve of Flea Man, he really is a presence on these fora. Quality post, agree with every word of it. Not that that means anything, but thought I would say it any way!

 

[BoxingAnalyst]

Roids.

 

[Pedderrs]

He's a good fighter, but he's not good enough to beat Martinez. Entertaining fight nonetheless.

 

[antcull]

I wrote him off certainly. Freddie has done wonders with him and taught him exactly how to use his physical advantages to the best of his ability.

From getting outboxed against the likes of Cuello and looking like turd against the likes of Troy Rowland he looks a completely different fighter.

 

[Batkilt]

I've said for a while now that Chavezito cops too much flack for winning the WBC title that was stripped from Martinez, and for being his father's son. I suggested on Sherdog a while back that Top Rank would use Lee as a measuring stick for how Chavezito would cope with a southpaw and that I wasn't convinced that Martinez would beat him. Jr's size advantage, body work and his chin have me confident that he won't get blown away - and as @Flea Man posted Martinez fades in the middle rounds. His recent opponents have faded going down the stretch and I can't see Chavez doing so.

I'm picking Chavezito and hope he wins it too. I'm not sure if he'll ever shake off the "Jr" at the end of his name - harder to shed the image of being Julio Cesar Chavez's son that it is to shed the image of being Floyd Mayweather's or Roy Jones' - but winning the World Middleweight Championship as opposed to just being an alphabet champion is something not to be sniffed at.

 

[Teeto]

And look at him now. Mid round stoppage over Andy Lee, and is continuing to improve in his own way after each bout. People always seemed to bag him for his dad or maybe even his work ethic, calling him a bum and shit.... I have to say its refreshing to see a boxer totally ignore all the shit people talk about him and rise above, improve, and succeed expectations.

I reckon he won't be easy game for Maravilla, an entertaining fight at the least. What say you?

The part in red is very very:good:good:good:good:good

 

[Swarmer]

Roids.

This is such a fucking cop out, honestly. Whenever someone improves in this sport everyone attributes the shit to PEDS alone. I wouldnt be surprised if guy is on them, but did PEDS improve Jr's combination punching? His inside fighting? What about his ability to go to the head and body? When Toney and others started doing PEDS, did it improve their KO%?

smh

 

[Swarmer]

I would have really liked to see Chavez versus an Ishida or Pirog before this.

 

[Flea Man]

@Swarmer it may well have helped him to dedicate more time to training all those facets of his game

Also, Pirog, Golovkin, Geale, even Njikam!

But Ishida? A nails punch bag IMO. I'd want someone on the ascendancy.

 

[Swarmer]

@Swarmer it may well have helped him to dedicate more time to training all those facets of his game

I mean no doubt the recovery aspect of roids is certainly helpful to any high volume training athlete but.... Even if that were the case, wouldn't it speak to Jr's work ethic that he'd be willing to go that far for skill training?

 

[Flea Man]

@Swarmer or, knowing what he's like out of training, that he can't be arsed to do it off his own accord and needs the extra stimuli....all speculation of course, just throwing it out there.

 

[Wallet]

On the topic of Chavez 'roiding, give this a read: http://espn.go.com/blog/dan-rafael/post/_/id/1320/take-the-test-chavez-did