Alexis Arguello vs Floyd Mayweather SFW 15 rounds.
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I see Alexis as the better SFW, but head to head I think Floyd gives him problems. Alexis never liked movers, and he always looked better IMO when his opponent was leading off. In Arguello's favour though was the fact that he was a great body puncher, and a superb 15 round fighter. Not to say that Floyd wouldn't be good over the 15, just that there aren't many with the proven 15 round stamina that Arguello had. Also, I believe Alexis could stop Floyd, but not vice versa.
I'd probably lean about 65/35 in Mayweathers direction, whilst knowing that Arguello had a punch to trouble anyone if they made a mistake, and a possible advantage down the stretch.
I'd probably lean about 65/35 in Mayweathers direction, whilst knowing that Arguello had a punch to trouble anyone if they made a mistake, and a possible advantage down the stretch.
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I have Floyd too, it's just the footwork and the more energetic way he used it at 135. Floyd has become a better boxer in terms of all things that are technical in more recent times imo, but back then he was more explosive, not with his power, but with the way in which he worked. He better watch himself though, Arguello a better puncher than he has ever come across.
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I must add that Alexis knew were to place his feet to get his shots off. Even against a super fit and peak PRIME Floyd he gives him as much hassle as Castillo did.
Styles aside, Arguello is greater and more capable than any fighter Floyd has faced. He was great at catching, parrying, and whilst hittable he had decent enough defence and a chin of the highest quality.
Anything could happen in a fight between these two but on aesthetic evaluation for the benefits of a thread, I'll take Floyd. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Arguello ripped him up down the stretch. His feet were pretty slow because he didn't get up on his toes, he was always ready to punch, with either hand and with any punch. His hands were pretty quick, although I think Floyd was that much quicker than it will affect Arguello's brilliant timing and counter punching ability.
It's a tussle all the way, but Chacon managed to outmanouver Alexis enough for me to think Floyd, also quicker, better at applying his attributes and sharper offensively, will cause Alexis even more problems, and get through a bad patch if Arguello does eventually time one of his right hands and flattens him, as he did to 'Schoolboy' (and countless other quality fighters)
The man in my avatar Vs Floyd @ 130 is the one for me. He's as adaptable as Floyd. He's as brilliant as Floyd. He's not as quick but he's just as smart. He's proven against technical operators of the highest calibre.
Styles aside, Arguello is greater and more capable than any fighter Floyd has faced. He was great at catching, parrying, and whilst hittable he had decent enough defence and a chin of the highest quality.
Anything could happen in a fight between these two but on aesthetic evaluation for the benefits of a thread, I'll take Floyd. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Arguello ripped him up down the stretch. His feet were pretty slow because he didn't get up on his toes, he was always ready to punch, with either hand and with any punch. His hands were pretty quick, although I think Floyd was that much quicker than it will affect Arguello's brilliant timing and counter punching ability.
It's a tussle all the way, but Chacon managed to outmanouver Alexis enough for me to think Floyd, also quicker, better at applying his attributes and sharper offensively, will cause Alexis even more problems, and get through a bad patch if Arguello does eventually time one of his right hands and flattens him, as he did to 'Schoolboy' (and countless other quality fighters)
The man in my avatar Vs Floyd @ 130 is the one for me. He's as adaptable as Floyd. He's as brilliant as Floyd. He's not as quick but he's just as smart. He's proven against technical operators of the highest calibre.
good breakdown :good
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BTW, I meant Alexis timing one of Floyd's right hands. It was a left hook that floored Chacon the first time :good
As I say, hard for him. Alexis liked catching and deflecting with his glove, very hard against a very fast man of hand and feet like Floyd. JL Ramirez showed that you don't need to be negative with your movement to beat Alexis either, you can use lateral movement to aid output and it still stops him being completely effective. I mean, Alexis was in all the rounds with Ramirez, but still lost clearly (IMO)
Floyd would be in that kinda' battle here IMO. A great contest with a clear winner despite consistently competitive rounds.
As I say, hard for him. Alexis liked catching and deflecting with his glove, very hard against a very fast man of hand and feet like Floyd. JL Ramirez showed that you don't need to be negative with your movement to beat Alexis either, you can use lateral movement to aid output and it still stops him being completely effective. I mean, Alexis was in all the rounds with Ramirez, but still lost clearly (IMO)
Floyd would be in that kinda' battle here IMO. A great contest with a clear winner despite consistently competitive rounds.
yeah floyd's combination of movement, reflex, speed and power is monstrous at this weight.
in a monstrous way like rigo, he continually made people pay for their mistakes. any time alexis was out of position he'd be eating leather.I think floyd would have to come through some horrific body shots and accurate power shots but I don't see him losing to any sfw out there.
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@Swarmer one thing about him is the lack of diversity in that left hand IMO. Sharp, quick and accurate but for someone like Alexis, who picked up patterns and made adjustments on the fly brilliantly, I agree he could find shots there as well.
I'm taking Floyd at his very best though. Unless he got sparked (again, with Arguello, one of the greatest punchers ever, my personal no.2, anything is possible) I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and say he'd use his feet to get himself back together, and tie up, which he does well in a forearm in the face kinda' way, to just take the edge off one of the best finishers of all time going to work.
I'm taking Floyd at his very best though. Unless he got sparked (again, with Arguello, one of the greatest punchers ever, my personal no.2, anything is possible) I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and say he'd use his feet to get himself back together, and tie up, which he does well in a forearm in the face kinda' way, to just take the edge off one of the best finishers of all time going to work.
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Wordup. @Flea Man
On the matter of Floyd's left I would actually have to question what seems to be the concrete notion of Arguello being outboxed that easily. To be honest, Floyd's jab isnt that hot. I think Arguellos was really accurate and long (even if it was slow), and heavy. If we're talking about an exchange of leads I think Arguello could win that.
I think that if Floyd were to get hit by a big one he wouldnt go down. I see him being the type to get knocked out by accumulated damage rather than a single big one.
On the matter of Floyd's left I would actually have to question what seems to be the concrete notion of Arguello being outboxed that easily. To be honest, Floyd's jab isnt that hot. I think Arguellos was really accurate and long (even if it was slow), and heavy. If we're talking about an exchange of leads I think Arguello could win that.
I think that if Floyd were to get hit by a big one he wouldnt go down. I see him being the type to get knocked out by accumulated damage rather than a single big one.
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@Swarmer yes and as I say, he has shown the ability to survive after being with a couple of big right hands. Although to be honest I'm not even sure that means he could apply that to Arguello's right and finishing ability, again, taking a hypothetical prime Floyd I'm happy to say it evens itself out.
As for Alexis' left, Floyd has never seen anyone hook off the jab like Arguello. Would his jab cause the same problems for Floyd that Oscar did? Oscar was past his best, would Arguello at his absolute peak level that out? Alexis was not entirely hopeless either. Still raw, he took ATG stylist Marcel into deep waters and forced him to summon a second wind in rounds where Marcel was usually setting a pattern of generalship and domination. He reversed the Fernandez fight, and as a brilliant 15 round fighter his sporadic struggle over this limit (Ramirez fight was also over 10) wouldn't apply if we're putting Floyd in the real man distance.
Leonal Hernandez was a very tricky and adept fighter and Arguello found his way into it, bossed it, broke him down, smashed him up. He did seize the split second opportunity of a then disciplined Chacon to blast him out. He did win the mid-range battle against a Boza that has never looked more strong, composed and smart. He blasted Jose Legra inside a round for fucks sake.
I'm starting to convince myself that El Flaco Explosivo is the smarter pick, but with a reputation as a Floyd hater (puh-leaze) and an Arguello fanboy it's probably better for my brain of I stick to my original hypothesis.
As I say, could go either way but Floyd has one stylistic advantage and it's a big one.
Would we say Ike Williams had a similar deficiency in really getting it going against more mobile types, as Alexis did?
As for Alexis' left, Floyd has never seen anyone hook off the jab like Arguello. Would his jab cause the same problems for Floyd that Oscar did? Oscar was past his best, would Arguello at his absolute peak level that out? Alexis was not entirely hopeless either. Still raw, he took ATG stylist Marcel into deep waters and forced him to summon a second wind in rounds where Marcel was usually setting a pattern of generalship and domination. He reversed the Fernandez fight, and as a brilliant 15 round fighter his sporadic struggle over this limit (Ramirez fight was also over 10) wouldn't apply if we're putting Floyd in the real man distance.
Leonal Hernandez was a very tricky and adept fighter and Arguello found his way into it, bossed it, broke him down, smashed him up. He did seize the split second opportunity of a then disciplined Chacon to blast him out. He did win the mid-range battle against a Boza that has never looked more strong, composed and smart. He blasted Jose Legra inside a round for fucks sake.
I'm starting to convince myself that El Flaco Explosivo is the smarter pick, but with a reputation as a Floyd hater (puh-leaze) and an Arguello fanboy it's probably better for my brain of I stick to my original hypothesis.
As I say, could go either way but Floyd has one stylistic advantage and it's a big one.
Would we say Ike Williams had a similar deficiency in really getting it going against more mobile types, as Alexis did?
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The thing that makes me think Floyd would give arguello trouble are the obvious: fast footwork against a plodder, great head/upperbody movement against a guy mostly given to straight punching... It seems to work right? I think the decider here would be how Floyd would do once he did slip shots and avoid them. I think he lacks the positioning to do his favored cross counters, and while i think he could pop off some nice combinations and jabs to the body I don't think he'd be willing to unload enough to hurt Alexis(which i think he could ability wise).
I dont think picking arguello is a bad idea at all. The implication is that if you pick arguello, its by a late KO, but whats to say that Floyd doesnt find a proper hit and run solution?
I think Ike was hypothetically better against movers. I see him as being more explosive in spurts and having springier legs, position changing than arguello. although ultimately an inferior hitter.
I dont think picking arguello is a bad idea at all. The implication is that if you pick arguello, its by a late KO, but whats to say that Floyd doesnt find a proper hit and run solution?
I think Ike was hypothetically better against movers. I see him as being more explosive in spurts and having springier legs, position changing than arguello. although ultimately an inferior hitter.
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Yes, agree with all of that about Ike.
My only question of super featherweight Floyd is that he wasn't all that negative. Whereas I'd fancy a Baldomir-esque performance (in terms of workrate and actual engaging he does rather than chosen output) to really stop Arguello getting a foothold at all, and while he was still a clinical fighter in his youth, he was more energetic, and that might allow Alexis to draw him into something whereas he'd have no chance against the more experienced, one fight a year guy, taking weight out of the equation of course, it obviously becomes a worse matchup got Alexis the more it goes up in weight. Floyd more cautious, Alexis more battle worn. Underrated contender IMO but this ain't Billy Costello.
It ain't Aaron Pryor either, so I think Alexis is in it for the 15 at any weight. Just see him having more opportunities against super feather Floyd.
My only question of super featherweight Floyd is that he wasn't all that negative. Whereas I'd fancy a Baldomir-esque performance (in terms of workrate and actual engaging he does rather than chosen output) to really stop Arguello getting a foothold at all, and while he was still a clinical fighter in his youth, he was more energetic, and that might allow Alexis to draw him into something whereas he'd have no chance against the more experienced, one fight a year guy, taking weight out of the equation of course, it obviously becomes a worse matchup got Alexis the more it goes up in weight. Floyd more cautious, Alexis more battle worn. Underrated contender IMO but this ain't Billy Costello.
It ain't Aaron Pryor either, so I think Alexis is in it for the 15 at any weight. Just see him having more opportunities against super feather Floyd.
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Floyd was brilliant at 130, Floyd on points..Arguello would give him a lot to think about though.
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Over the specified 15 rounds, I could see Arguello coming on with a typically late surge and stopping Floyd while down on the cards if it weren't for Mayweather's tremendous conditioning and stamina. He's never been a drainer and walks around predominantly at fighting weight. If there's a current fighter I'd comfortably predict could adjust to going 15 each time out - unfortunately for Alexis here - it's Floyd. For all the legitimate criticisms of him, this one goes in the Plus category.
All the reasons and points for why he comes out on top have already been eloquently put.
All the reasons and points for why he comes out on top have already been eloquently put.
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