[Luf]

These three fights are so crucial to Oscar's legacy as a WW. they pretty much define him in terms of clearing out a division or being a paper champ.

I've always had him beating Tito and Quartey (well the last two times I watched them) but I used to have Pea beating him. The second time I watched that however I scored it for Oscar. I'll make my final decision on the third time of viewing for each fight.

But as it stands, I have him winning these 3 and that pretty much makes him a WW ATG in my book and somewhere in the top 18 (if I'm happy he beat all 3 he'll be my number 8).

However if you see these 3 fights differently that statement seems laughable.

I think there's a huge scope for how to rank Oscar as a WW and I'd like to hear some opinions on the matter.

So vote for how you think he went in these 3 fights and give a ballpark for where you rank him as a WW :good

 

[Michael]

I scored Quartey-De la Hoya 112-114 for Quartey, De La Hoya-Whitaker, 114-112 for Oscar and Tito-De La Hoya 115-113 for Oscar. If I was De La Hoya id gladly trade in the Quartey win for the win against a prime Trinidad though :yep

 

[Luf]

I scored Quartey-De la Hoya 112-114 for Quartey, De La Hoya-Whitaker, 114-112 for Oscar and Tito-De La Hoya 115-113 for Oscar. If I was De La Hoya id gladly trade in the Quartey win for the win against a prime Trinidad though :yep

how do you rank him in terms of WW?

 

[Flea Man]

I have him winning all 3 with the Pea fight going either way each time I've watched it.

Even with all these scalps as definite wins top 8 is ridiculous IMO.

 

[Luf]

I have him winning all 3 with the Pea fight going either way each time I've watched it.

Even with all these scalps as definite wins top 8 is ridiculous IMO.

winning those 3 gives him a WW resume of: Whittaker, Chavez, Trinidad, Camacho, Quartey, Rivera, Carr, Kamau, Charpentier, Gatti - Mosley (L). plus he would go on to avenge the lone loss at LMW in my eyes. barring politics he would have unified every belt and he'd have spent just over 3 years as the best WW in the world defending against ranked opponents consistently. not many can compete with that.

I do have all 3 for him, and depending on how you rate him h2h I see him somewhere between 8-13 (I actually have him number 9, not 8 :good)

 

[1971791]

I scored De La Hoya vs Trinidad 116-112 to De La Hoya. Obvious win.
114-113 vs Quartey, very close win.
And I had Whitaker beating him 114-112, although that silly point deduction makes it a little closer than it was.

 

[Flea Man]

winning those 3 gives him a WW resume of: Whittaker, Chavez, Trinidad, Camacho, Quartey, Rivera, Carr, Kamau, Charpentier, Gatti - Mosley (L). plus he would go on to avenge the lone loss at LMW in my eyes. barring politics he would have unified every belt and he'd have spent just over 3 years as the best WW in the world defending against ranked opponents consistently. not many can compete with that.

I do have all 3 for him, and depending on how you rate him h2h I see him somewhere between 8-13 (I actually have him number 9, not 8 :good)

Yes I think he was robbed against Shane second time, but that means nothing here. About four or five or those opponents were of any real quality IMO.

 

[Luf]

Yes I think he was robbed against Shane second time, but that means nothing here. About four or five or those opponents were of any real quality IMO.

In terms of WW resume not that many can compete imo. the "win" over shane doesn't mean nothing anyway, it's an indication for his h2h capabilities in turning over a loss.

I think he's a lock for top 18 if you score those 3 for him. I personally have him top 13 and rank him number 9 based on h2h.

 

[Flea Man]

Based on H2H you have him no.9? Really? He was brilliant don't get me wrong, but pretty much one handed at welter. I think I'd rank him pretty high (higher at 140 based on H2H) but I can think of better welters than Oscar.

 

[Luf]

Based on H2H you have him no.9? Really? He was brilliant don't get me wrong, but pretty much one handed at welter. I think I'd rank him pretty high (higher at 140 based on H2H) but I can think of better welters than Oscar.

no I think I worded that wrong.

The tier I've put him in runs from 8-13. (Walcott, De La Hoya, Griffith, Ross, McLarnin, Basilio) those guys in that tier I then rank on a h2h basis (just as a way of splitting them). So my overall ranking of him after that is number 9.

 

[Michael]

how do you rank him in terms of WW?

Top 15, I think top 10 would be a bit of a stretch when you consider the quality at the weight. Will have to look over it again though. Oscar did amass a very good resume all the same at the weight and had some class performances. Ability wise ive got a lot of props for Oscar also, and he could give practically any welterweight in history a very good fight. He had an excellent jab, terrific power in his left hook, good boxing skills and hand speed. He could be fairly inconsistent at the weight though, and it wasnt till his 154 days that he started to add a right hand to his arsenal.

 

[Luf]

well this is my current ATG list at the weight:


1 Ray Robinson
2 Ray Leonard
3 Jose Napoles
4 Kid Gavilan
5 Henry Armstrong
6 Micky Walker
7 Jack Britton
8 Barbados Joe Walcott
9 Oscar De La Hoya
10 Emile Griffith
11 Barney Ross
12 Jimmy McLarnin
13 Carmen Basilio
14 Pernell Whittaker
15 Charley Burley
16 Luis Rodriguez
17 Young Corbett III
18 Ted Kid Lewis
19 Thomas Hearns
20 Tommy Ryan
21 Curtis Cokes
22 Jackie Fields

My tiers are split like 2-7; 8-13; 14-18; 19-22.

Looking into billy Graham in some detail as well to see if he belongs up there.

 

[Vic]

Last time I scored DLH vs Quartey I saw a draw.....
His fight with Pea was very very close IMO, but I see Whitaker winning it....
And I need to re-watch, but as far as I can remember I scored to Trinidad, and honestly I wasn´t in doubt when I did it at the time......

 

[Boxed Ears]

I can't recall watching the Trinidad fight since it happened, but I remember at the time thinking it was a horrific decision and that ODLH had actually played it smart and outclassed Trinidad surprisingly with relative ease through the better part of it. The story now is that he played it pretty stupidly and "deserved to lose" for giving away some rounds at the end, from a lot of people. I just didn't see it that way at the time. I think if you clearly won, you deserve to win. Period.

Quartey, a very underrated operator, in my opinion, and ODLH, it could've gone either way for Oscar or a draw. It was fair to me. I thought it was a very well-executed chess match on both parts and I thought the strong finish was a fair nicking of it by Oscar. Another example of him not fading late, even though ODLH myths about him being terrible late, losing all his big fights like an also-ran type and all of that seem to prevail these days and it just gets repeated over and over and I simply don't agree with it.

The Whitaker fight was as good as Whitaker was going to show up in the late stage of his career from what I remember, another one it's been a great long while for. The only one of these I saw even somewhat recently I think was Quartey. I thought Oscar won the Pea fight at the time, but I don't score points for making your opponent look stupid. I score points for when you score with your fists. Still a good, competitive fight, but I don't score Pea looking cool, so I don't get the robbery talk when that fight is mentioned. If I did score on looking cool, Pea should've won by eleventeen points and was robbed blind. Regular scoring, no robbery. Cool scoring, eleventeen point shut-out robbery.

 

[Luf]

I can't recall watching the Trinidad fight since it happened, but I remember at the time thinking it was a horrific decision and that ODLH had actually played it smart and outclassed Trinidad surprisingly with relative ease through the better part of it. The story now is that he played it pretty stupidly and "deserved to lose" for giving away some rounds at the end, from a lot of people. I just didn't see it that way at the time. I think if you clearly won, you deserve to win. Period.

Quartey, a very underrated operator, in my opinion, and ODLH, it could've gone either way for Oscar or a draw. It was fair to me. I thought it was a very well-executed chess match on both parts and I thought the strong finish was a fair nicking of it by Oscar. Another example of him not fading late, even though ODLH myths about him being terrible late, losing all his big fights like an also-ran type and all of that seem to prevail these days and it just gets repeated over and over and I simply don't agree with it.

The Whitaker fight was as good as Whitaker was going to show up in the late stage of his career from what I remember, another one it's been a great long while for. The only one of these I saw even somewhat recently I think was Quartey. I thought Oscar won the Pea fight at the time, but I don't score points for making your opponent look stupid. I score points for when you score with your fists. Still a good, competitive fight, but I don't score Pea looking cool, so I don't get the robbery talk when that fight is mentioned. If I did score on looking cool, Pea should've won by eleventeen points and was robbed blind. Regular scoring, no robbery. Cool scoring, eleventeen point shut-out robbery.

yeah I see tito the same, no point him banging with a banger. same with pea, no point him dancing with a dancer.

the closest of the 3 is definitely quartey. I think Oscar nicked it but that was very hard to score.

 

[Vano-irons]

well this is my current ATG list at the weight:

1 Ray Robinson
2 Ray Leonard
3 Jose Napoles
4 Kid Gavilan
5 Henry Armstrong
6 Micky Walker
7 Jack Britton
8 Barbados Joe Walcott
9 Oscar De La Hoya
10 Emile Griffith
11 Barney Ross
12 Jimmy McLarnin
13 Carmen Basilio
14 Pernell Whittaker
15 Charley Burley
16 Luis Rodriguez
17 Young Corbett III
18 Ted Kid Lewis
19 Thomas Hearns
20 Tommy Ryan
21 Curtis Cokes
22 Jackie Fields

My tiers are split like 2-7; 8-13; 14-18; 19-22.

Looking into billy Graham in some detail as well to see if he belongs up there.

???

 

[Teeto]

shit, I can hardly remember, I used to know my exact scores for these fights when I used to post on ESB,

I thnk I had-

The Quartey fight for Quartey

The Tito fight for Oscar

Shit I can't remember how I had the Pea fight, I must be going senile, I think I had it a draw but it should have been a win for Pea because there was a legitimate kd which wasn't scored, or am I just remembering this wrong? Gunna watch this tonight

 

[Teeto]

how the fuck is Oscar De La Hoya above Barney Ross and so far ahead of Luis Rodriguez at 147, I feel like I've just been raped

 

[LancsTerrible]

I had him beating all 3. That's why I'm such as big fan. Just behind Whitaker and maybe Spinks as the greatest boxer since Leonard.

 

[Luf]

how the fuck is Oscar De La Hoya above Barney Ross and so far ahead of Luis Rodriguez at 147, I feel like I've just been raped

ahead of ross because i put them in the same tier and think he beats him. ahead of lmr because i probably underrate him.