[Chatty]

Who wins?

I've seen a million excuses from Leonard fans for why he lost the first fight and a million from Duran fans on why he lost the second so as its regarded by most that these we're up their as one of each boxers finest performances, what happens if each of the other guys better performance turns up.

 

[JamieC]

Duran, he beat himself in teh second as much as anything, Leonard was brilliant but Duran over Leonard was one of the best performances from a p4p great, he'd beat anyone on that day

 

[Lunny]

Might need to rewatch it but I remember the 1st fight being FAR closer than people suggest. If it had gone to Leonard I'm not sure I'd even count it as a robbery. Though as I said I probably need to rewatch before going into it too much. Will do in the next couple of days.

 

[adamcanavan]

Might need to rewatch it but I remember the 1st fight being FAR closer than people suggest. If it had gone to Leonard I'm not sure I'd even count it as a robbery. Though as I said I probably need to rewatch before going into it too much. Will do in the next couple of days.

Been a while since I watched the first fight but from what I remember it was close but clear to Duran

 

[dftaylor]

Duran, he beat himself in teh second as much as anything, Leonard was brilliant but Duran over Leonard was one of the best performances from a p4p great, he'd beat anyone on that day

I guess quitting could be interpreted as beating yourself...

Disagree with your post generally. Leonard was beating the hell out of Duran by the end of the first fight. If he'd moved more in the first fight rather than engaged, he could have come on strong to take a clear decision.

It would always be competitive.

 

[Vano-irons]

It would always be close.

I would say that Duran on form always manages to draw Leonard into a fight that favours him more than Sugar. On that basis, I'll take Duran 6 times out of 10.

I always score the first fight 10-5 Duran, and I've posted my scorecard and breakdown before.

I think people get confused more with the second fight. With what happened, it's easy to think Ray was kicking Duran's arse, but Roberto was well in the fight when he walked out of the ring. I could see people scoring it 4-3 going into the 8th.

To sum up, Duran, to me, clearly won the first fight, and was given Ray trouble in the second. Ray never cemented his dominance until the third fight

 

[Chatty]

I guess quitting could be interpreted as beating yourself...

Disagree with your post generally. Leonard was beating the hell out of Duran by the end of the first fight. If he'd moved more in the first fight rather than engaged, he could have come on strong to take a clear decision.

It would always be competitive.

Beating the hell out him is a bit strong, he won the last 2-3 rounds but they we're still close.

I think the first fight is a massively clear Duran win when you score rounds but the fight itself was a lot closer than it would look on a scoresheet with every round very competitive.

The second fight was just as competitive, I had it 4-3 going into the eighth and the round Leonard showboated might as well be null as there was little fighting to it, although it did the trick for Leonard.

I don't even care for the third, its meaningless as both we're massively on the slide, Duran barely tried and Leonard just looked ancient wrapped up in a towel between rounds. They of course we're still capable of beating contenders but compared to earlier versions of themselves they had fallen pretty far.

 

[dftaylor]

Beating the hell out him is a bit strong, he won the last 2-3 rounds but they we're still close.

I felt that in the second half of the fight Leonard was getting to Duran more than the converse. He never looked like stopping Duran, but Leonard looked the stronger at the close.

Personally, I feel there's a tendency to oversell Duran and ignore how tight most of the rounds were. Even though I believe Duran clearly won the first bout, it was a closely contested battle. The second fight was competitive too, but the difference was that Leonard was giving Duran when he was at his most dangerous.

I've never bought into the argument that Duran was massively undertrained second time out. He was less intense and Ray was less macho, so between the two factors it changed the pace of the fight. I also believe Ray had figured out Duran's rhythm between offence and defence, and expect he'd have started really tagging Roberto's body in the middle rounds to grind him out.

The two were just a great styles match-up for competitive fights. I disregard the third fight.

 

[Steve Funn]

I think Leonard from the second fight, he was too willing to stand and engage in the first - can give duran credit for forcing him to do it in the ring physically and also mentally as a kind of macho challenge ray wanted to stand up to - but I think SRL learned a lot that night and assuming he fought the 'montreal duran' again I think Leonard would use more movement and range and find a way to win.

 

[dftaylor]

I think people get confused more with the second fight. With what happened, it's easy to think Ray was kicking Duran's arse, but Roberto was well in the fight when he walked out of the ring. I could see people scoring it 4-3 going into the 8th.

Probably not as confused as someone who says the first fight wasn't close

Nonetheless, there's a reason Duran walked out, and it wasn't because Ray wasn't taking him seriously, IMO.

 

[GazOC]

It would always be close.

I would say that Duran on form always manages to draw Leonard into a fight that favours him more than Sugar. On that basis, I'll take Duran 6 times out of 10.

I always score the first fight 10-5 Duran, and I've posted my scorecard and breakdown before.

I think people get confused more with the second fight. With what happened, it's easy to think Ray was kicking Duran's arse, but Roberto was well in the fight when he walked out of the ring. I could see people scoring it 4-3 going into the 8th.

To sum up, Duran, to me, clearly won the first fight, and was given Ray trouble in the second. Ray never cemented his dominance until the third fight

I think the 3rd fight is meaningless but, to me, the second fight showed how the first fight could have gone if Leonard hadn't have got dragged into Durans fight. At 147 Leonard beats Duran 9 times out of 10 after that first loss IMHO.

 

[Boxed Ears]

This is much less fun without MAG.

 

[Chatty]

I think the 3rd fight is meaningless but, to me, the second fight showed how the first fight could have gone if Leonard hadn't have got dragged into Durans fight. At 147 Leonard beats Duran 9 times out of 10 after that first loss IMHO.

Its a hard one for me to judge, I think if they had a 100 fights I wouldn't be surprised if the outcome was 50/50. Leonard had a better 2nd fight but it was still close, I think if Duran had stuck to his guns it would have been close again down the distance, with probably Leonard taking the win as he looked more in control.

I'm not going to make excuses for Duran's training, he may have went partying but he did for a fair few of his fights, I just think mentally he'd turned off a notch by the second fight. He was nowhere near as ferocious as the first fight, and yes some of that has to do with Leonard but I just don't think he was ever really mentally as charged after Leonard 1.

 

[Vano-irons]

Probably not as confused as someone who says the first fight wasn't close

Nonetheless, there's a reason Duran walked out, and it wasn't because Ray wasn't taking him seriously, IMO.

:lol: I said it wasn't close on the cards pretty much every round was close and competitive, with Duran edging most of them.

I do think there was only going to be one winner in the second fight, but I had it closer than most going into the 8th

I think the 3rd fight is meaningless but, to me, the second fight showed how the first fight could have gone if Leonard hadn't have got dragged into Durans fight. At 147 Leonard beats Duran 9 times out of 10 after that first loss IMHO.

Yeah 3rd fight is utterly meaningless. I think a Duran on top form is good enough to drag Leonard in. He was even having some success in the second fight

 

[dftaylor]

:lol: I said it wasn't close on the cards pretty much every round was close and competitive, with Duran edging most of them.

I do think there was only going to be one winner in the second fight, but I had it closer than most going into the 8th

I agree with your scorecard in the two fights actually, which is also one of the reasons I don't believe that Duran was out-of-shape. Maybe not in the shape he was in back in Montreal, but still.

 

[Chatty]

I agree with your scorecard in the two fights actually, which is also one of the reasons I don't believe that Duran was out-of-shape. Maybe not in the shape he was in back in Montreal, but still.

Nah, he was in good shape, it was a competitive fight still and even if Duran was on the lash during the build up, its not like he didn't do that for a lot of his other fights and looked fine. I think he was a bit weaker mentally though, like he had nothing left to prove and didn't really want it as much, probably has a lot to do with quitting. I think for those couple of seconds when he quit he will have though he would have been perceived as macho telling Leonard to fuck off after his showboating but it backfired dramatically.

 

[Vano-irons]

I agree with your scorecard in the two fights actually, which is also one of the reasons I don't believe that Duran was out-of-shape. Maybe not in the shape he was in back in Montreal, but still.

Wow, you agreeing with me on two separate fights is as likely as me picking a winner in a 50/50! Never happens!

I don't think Roberto was in too bad shape either to be honest. I know he did a shit load of partying after Montreal and had to she'd a lot of weight in the fortnight before No Mas, but it wasn't half as bad as people make out. The stomach cramps is bullshit too. He was drinking heavily an hour after the fight IIRC