[Vano-irons]

Two of boxing's early weight jumpers go head to head over 20 rounds. Which one of these pound for pound punchers come out on top?

Let's say Fitz enters the ring below the modern day SMW limit of 168lbs (which he did vs Gentleman Jim), compared with the 1908 version of Langford (who had lost to Johnson, but beaten Jeanette, weighing between 156-170 in the process).

Does the lanky powerful Fitz handle Langford the way Johnson did, keeping him at bay with the jab, controlling distance? Or does the stronger Langford out-muscle Bob in the clinch and get to him chin (and lanky body) early?

 

[Flea Man]

Neither. Langford gets to Fitz in the mid-rounds. Corbett dropped him. Langford would waste him.

It's the bigger, slower guys Fitz dealt with. Nonpareil aside (insanely good win) it seemed to me it was the quicker guys that gave him trouble. I'm still not certain the Jim Hall KO was a fix.

Langford isn't getting stopped before he gets to Fotz IMO. And as crafty and skilled as Fitz was, Langford was also an expert at partying and equally able to strike from mid-range or batter his man on the inside.

Vano, you know I love Fitz. It's completely conceivable he wins this, but I'm taking Sam here.

 

[Swarmer]

Tough cookie. I think both guys have the power/chin ratio to get stretched. Technique is an interesting call here. I actually reckon these two wouldn't be pressing the action much against each other after initial tastes of power. Both guys feint and set traps for position, Langford would probably fold first in this sort of contest and take a couple huge ones.

If Fitz tries to just keep Langford at bay, i reckon he'd have a shit time of that with the guys functional strength and infighting/pressure ability as well as surprisingly good head movement and hooked punches.

 

[Swarmer]

Langford was also an expert at partying

no doubt.

 

[Burt Brooks]

Being that this fantasy fight is all speculation i go by an interview by a fighter Sandy Ferguson,a big tough heavyweight of that time who fought sam Langford and sparred with Bob Fitzimmons many times...In his opinion he picks Bob Fitzsimmons because of his devastating body punching...Fitz when young might have been the greatest hitter ever...And so i pick the taller Fitzsimmons over Langford,as did the fighter Sandy Ferguson who was in the ring with both...
Ferguson would know better than anyone today, I should think...

 

[Flea Man]

no doubt.

Bastard iPhone. You knew what I meant :twisted

 

[Swarmer]

Oh and re: chins to be fair Langford hit the deck quite a few times in his career as well... I reckon Fitz stood up pretty well in his old age to Sharkey and Jeffries who certainly werent patty punchers. But back then, with these gloves... A matter of chance during 20+ rounds to get hit with something even from a mediocre hitter you can get hurt.

I think its very safe to say both could get stuffed by the other.


edit: and i feel like contemporaries of both seem to praise Fitz more, although thats always suspect.

 

[Vano-irons]

I dunno Flea. Johnson pretty much handed Langford his arse, knocking him down countless times. Fitz was a bigger, more spiteful puncher, so I think he can get to Sam here.

But Fitz can be hurt. While I'm almost certain the Hall KO loss was a fix, he was dropped by Corbett, and probably lost the first 8 rounds before Jim gassed out.

Fitz's body assault wouldn't work against Langford (who was far too compact, and far to good/strong on the inside to get caught regularly IMO).

But I think Fitz would catch Sam coming in. He'll get sam's attention, and stop him late after batting Langford into submission.

 

[Swarmer]

Fitz Langford would be like Langford Ketchel honestly, both guys not doing much for fear of getting absolutely pounded into another dimension.

 

[Burt Brooks]

Swarmer would it be "suspect" also if Sam Langford would have been picked by his peers of that time ? Just asking...

 

[Chatty]

Hard one to call, I think both guys have good arguments for going over the other here but my gut instinct says Langford would get to him. Its one of those I'd proberly go back and forth with though tbh.

 

[Swarmer]

Swarmer would it be "suspect" also if Sam Langford would have been picked by his peers of that time ? Just asking...

Is this a race tainted question my man burt? I hope we're better than that, although im sure Sam got downplayed on that front from time to time.

I was thinking of guys like Joe Gans and Johnson who spent ring time with fitzsimmons calling him a peerless master and such... but then you cant really compare those opinions with the ones they have on Langford who was a rival, competitor, and potential upstart from their view rather than a faded legend.

anyways the interviews of athletes are always suspect. they say things for the sake of a fanbase, or to seem a certain way. theyll downplay this and aggrandize that, because they are human and to be honest are fighters, competitors. They dont care about objectivity.

 

[Flea Man]

Fitz Langford would be like Langford Ketchel honestly, both guys not doing much for fear of getting absolutely pounded into another dimension.

This is a good comparison, one I was thinking of myself. For me though, Corbett looked poor for his time and Sam looked amazing regardless of what era be was in. Corbett may well have over trained whipping himself back into shape but he was essentially a retired fighter going into that bout.
@Vano-irons IIRC Johnson had much more weight on that Sam (about 160lbs I Think than Fitz would have on Sam here.

Fitz would be waiting to set Sam up for something. I just think Langford Will be able to press the action and land something, get inside and get his hands going.

As I said earlier, I can see any number of outcomes. But my gut instinct is Langford.

 

[Flea Man]

Is this a race tainted question my man burt? I hope we're better than that, although im sure Sam got downplayed on that front from time to time.

I was thinking of guys like Joe Gans and Johnson who spent ring time with fitzsimmons calling him a peerless master and such... but then you cant really compare those opinions with the ones they have on Langford who was a rival, competitor, and potential upstart from their view rather than a faded legend.

anyways the interviews of athletes are always suspect. they say things for the sake of a fanbase, or to seem a certain way. theyll downplay this and aggrandize that, because they are human and to be honest are fighters, competitors. They dont care about objectivity.

For example, George Foreman's hyperbolic views on Ken Norton's prowess.

 

[Vano-irons]

@Flea Man Yup, you're quite right. Johnson was around 180 for the fight, Sam around the Light Middleweight limit of 156 IIRC.

In that fight, Sam made the critical error of trying to out-clinch not only a man 30 odd lb heavier, but also trying to out-clinch possibly the greatest clincher of them all in Johnson. Langford (weighing between 160-175, like he did against Jeanette in 07), would be able to out muscle Fitz on the inside. I have no doubt. But I still think a 168lb Fitz would hit just as hard as a 180lb Johnson (who said he actually took it easy on sam, which is hard to believe as most accounts say he was battering fuck out of Sam).

of course, it's impossible for Langford to be ruled out here. He was that good, and could hit that hard, that he would trouble pretty much everyone between 150-170

 

[Flea Man]

@Vano-irons from what I've read of the Johnson fight Langford's chin came out with a lot of praise. He took a fuckin' leathering.

 

[Vano-irons]

@Vano-irons from what I've read of the Johnson fight Langford's chin came out with a lot of praise. He took a fuckin' leathering.

I've just read that section of Langford's book. Moyle said he was down in the 6th and twice in the 8th. But we do need to take The huge size disparity into account here. Many thought Sam would be stopped by the much bigger Jack, but he wasn't. Certainly a credit to his fine chin. I just think Fitz hits that bit harder to get Sammy out of there

 

[Flea Man]

@Vano-irons would you say Fitz would get rid of Ketchel with one shot as Johnson did?

 

[Vano-irons]

@Vano-irons would you say Fitz would get rid of Ketchel with one shot as Johnson did?

He got rid of Corbett with a single shot, so stopping Ketchell wouldn't be out of the question. I'm not sure he knocks him out for 5 minutes and picks 3 of Ketchell's teeth out of this gloves tho :lol:

 

[Luf]

Aside from the times Langfrod was insanely outweighed, he only ever seemed to lose dodgey decisions.

Fitz just didn't lose full stop did he, that being said feinting sam langford has got to be suicide, this is a man who fully blind was able to time and knock out cold a prime tiger flowers.

Fitz, imo, achieved more than any other boxer in history but style wise if you offer langford your chin, you're getting sparked no matter what your name is.

Langford ko.