[Vic]

I just wanna know how many are like me and consider Louis the number 1 at HW...and greater than Ali.....

 

[Rattler]

#2

Right behind Ali. You simply can't (IMO) overcome Ali's resume. It's impossible. Louis' era hurts him in this regard.

 

[Vic]

#2

Right behind Ali. You simply can't (IMO) overcome Ali's resume. It's impossible. Louis' era hurts him in this regard.

Ali´s resume is better.....but is it enough to surpass Joe´s dominance ?
No, IMO......Ali never beat Frazier showing real superiority...like Frazier did, in the first fight....so to me, Ali´s resume is more about Liston and Foreman...and I consider both great wins but a tad overrated, especially the Foreman one (I don´t consider Liston a great fighter).
The way Louis dominated his era was more impressive IMO.

 

[Rattler]

1. Louis was dominant... but if he had the occasional Frazier or Foreman peppered into his Bum of the Month club, the "dominance" argument wouldn't exist because Louis would've picked up a loss or two and broke up the consecutive years stretch Louis had. So, Louis' strongest argument is slightly skewed by (much) inferior competition.

2. Ali (before, in or soon after his prime) never got beat like Louis did against Schmeling (and you could argue Conn).

3. Ali wasn't fighting too many pumped up LHW's like Louis did. His resume is exceedingly stronger. Not just a little bit. A lot bit.

 

[Vic]

1. Louis was dominant... but if he had the occasional Frazier or Foreman peppered into his Bum of the Month club, the "dominance" argument wouldn't exist because Louis would've picked up a loss or two and broke up the consecutive years stretch Louis had. So, Louis' strongest argument is slightly skewed by (much) inferior competition.

Possibly.....yes.
But maybe he would beat Frazier more convincingly than Ali....but yeah, I won´t disagree with you, I mean...it´s okay.

I don´t agree that it was much inferior competition btw.....

 

[Rattler]

Possibly.....yes.
But maybe he would beat Frazier more convincingly than Ali....but yeah, I won´t disagree with you, I mean...it´s okay.

I don´t agree that it was much inferior competition btw.....

Schmeling - that loss is easily worse than any that Ali had. Losing to a prime Joe Frazier? No shame there (especially coming on the heels of a three year absence from the ring). Spinks, Berbick and Holmes? Not when you consider he was in the early stages of Parkinson's and advanced in age. In his prime, Louis got stopped. Not on the cards... brutally beat down by an opponent. That never happened to Ali - even when he was sick.

Frazier, Foreman, Liston... three of the Top 10-15 heavyweights in history. Ali beat them all. If you want to discount Liston because his life was fucked and he wasn't at his best, that's fine. You still have Frazier and Foreman on Ali's resume. Louis can't top that.

 

[scribbs]

Ali fought better opposition & has stated above Louis got stopped whereas Ali didn't. It's close call tho.

 

[Bladerunner]

Ali not only based on resume bu also based on ability.

Hes the greatest HW i ever saw.

 

[junior-soprano]

ali's resume is way way better then joe's.

vicjofre as for you not rating liston as a great fighter you are wrong. on a h2h basis sonny is a monster.

so frazier, liston, foreman.

also chuvalo, patterson, norton, lyle, quarry, folley, ellis, terrel, foster, bugner, young, shavers.

just those names. because i think these where the best amongst his opponents thats quite a great list.

 

[O59]

I once rated Louis as the superior heavyweight, mainly for his dominance and accomplishments. As McGrain once stated, Louis was arguably the greatest champion of all time, which isn't too far of a stretch to say.

In the end, Ali's resume is clearly superior and thus, I would rate him higher, despite him not having the same level of dominance overall.