[Luf]

Just been watching Zale v Graziano and there was a bit when the ref literally pulled Graziano to his feet at the count of 8. The fight didn't get stopped until the count of 10 was heard.

How much damage did elongated beatings like this cause? Compare it to say Froch v Bute where Froch battered him but the moment Bute slumped the fight was over.


As far as entertainment goes the former seems better on the surface, but could it be a cause of diminishing returns? i.e. the more batterings the less effective the boxer becomes therefore stopping future fights being as good.

Thoughts, if any :lol:

 

[DanielJFiasco]

Without sounding like an "old schooler", I think some of those old fighters had different priorities, and also some of them were just tough son of a bitches! It reminds me of the Cotto Margarito 2 face-off when Margarito says he is prepared to die in the ring, and Cotto said that was stupid. I think modern fighters are a lot more aware of the long term affects and thus prioritise their life above their career. Also, the massive dollar in the game now, compared to then is probably part of it. When you look at guys like Leonard, retiring rich as fuck after 40 fights, and then think of Sugar Ray Robinson, who fought in all those wars in the 15 round era, having around 200 fights and still dying poor (albeit after making poor financial decisions.

It's nice to see some of the old school guys still doing alright though. I saw Carmen Basilio on one of those ESPN shows not too long ago, and for a guy that took so much, he seems pretty together well into his 80's. I also wonder if the technique has an effect on this. Those old school fighters crouched a bit lower and I think that allowed them to take some of the heat out of shots. Not to mention the fact that the talent pool back then was so big that a lot of the weaker chins would have been weeded out at lower levels.

You give Bute as an example, and it makes me wonder what kind of career he would have had back then, fighting more regularly, needing to take riskier fights and more regularly, going 15 rounds if necessary. Bute is a product of his era in my opinion, and is the kind of guy who wouldn't have been able to make a living in the older 1 or 2 title eras.

 

[Luf]

Without sounding like an "old schooler", I think some of those old fighters had different priorities, and also some of them were just tough son of a bitches! It reminds me of the Cotto Margarito 2 face-off when Margarito says he is prepared to die in the ring, and Cotto said that was stupid. I think modern fighters are a lot more aware of the long term affects and thus prioritise their life above their career. Also, the massive dollar in the game now, compared to then is probably part of it. When you look at guys like Leonard, retiring rich as fuck after 40 fights, and then think of Sugar Ray Robinson, who fought in all those wars in the 15 round era, having around 200 fights and still dying poor (albeit after making poor financial decisions.

It's nice to see some of the old school guys still doing alright though. I saw Carmen Basilio on one of those ESPN shows not too long ago, and for a guy that took so much, he seems pretty together well into his 80's. I also wonder if the technique has an effect on this. Those old school fighters crouched a bit lower and I think that allowed them to take some of the heat out of shots. Not to mention the fact that the talent pool back then was so big that a lot of the weaker chins would have been weeded out at lower levels.

You give Bute as an example, and it makes me wonder what kind of career he would have had back then, fighting more regularly, needing to take riskier fights and more regularly, going 15 rounds if necessary. Bute is a product of his era in my opinion, and is the kind of guy who wouldn't have been able to make a living in the older 1 or 2 title eras.

Good answer. Like you say there are guys who had war after war in fights that would have been stopped early today and still came out alright.

Someone like cotto was declared shot after his margo loss, but guys back in the 50's had fights like that all the time and sometimes even before being classed as prime.

I'm unsure whether we go too far protecting fighters today.

ps just heard buncey's shout out. what a legened