[Flea Man]

If all of these near flyweights were in the one era?

Miguel Canto
Masao Ohba
Pascual Perez
Hiroyuki Ebihara
Venice Borkorsor
Jung-Koo Chang
Ricardo Lopez
Panama Al Brown
Benny Lynch
Masahiko 'Fighting' Harada

Same day weigh in's. 12 and 10 round fights. Championship vacant 'at start of era'. All men start at the beginning of their absolute peak at the weight. If they fought it out amongst themselves, what would be the big rivalries? Who would come out on top against most different styles? Would anyone go on a dominant run? Would the bigger guys struggle to maintain the weight as the battles rage on?

It's easy to think Harada, Borkhorsor and Al Brown would steamroll some of the smaller guys, but would the natural fly get the gist of their size and strength advantages and pick up the wins? Would Canto be able to outbox all of these bastards with comparatively little power as he did to the fighters of his era? Any matchups you're certain of the outcome in?

Hopefully get some debate going about some of these guys :good

 

[DonBoxer]

I think i would fancy Al Brown and Lynch to rise to the top in a division where they are all fighting each other.

 

[Flea Man]

I can see why.

Which of the rest would cause Lynch and Brown the most hassle? And how would Lynch's iron chin hold up to Brown's lanky bombs?

 

[JamieC]

Ye i fancy Lynch, where's Wilde?

 

[Hammer Muldoon]

I wish i had a respectable opinion on this but i haven't seen nearly enough of most of these guys to pass judgement. Great thread though, interested to see the responses.

 

[Flea Man]

Wilde? No thanks.

 

[Flea Man]

First and foremost, Harada would beat the living shit out of Canto. I'll take Borkhorsor and Ebihara to get to Ohba. Insane powers of recovery but the Jap' was sharp and the Thai would just smash Ohba to bits.

Can we first establish a consensus: Perez or Canto? Who's the midget that will have the better chance at taming the more beastly types? Perez could punch as well, but Canto could turn all types of fighters inside out.

Anyone else agree Chang brings similar difficulties to Perez as Park did, with his odd rhythm and feints. Chang the far more versatile, strong willed and offensively dynamic fighter than Park, which evens out substituting the ageing Canto with the best one we can find. I think Chang takes a 15 round decision here, getting all over the Mexican maestro like he did Zapata. Chang had very fast feet to cut the distance in his prime as well. Way too much all round for Canto IMO.

How does Lopez fare when facing the best flyweights of all time rather than the best of a nothing division and the good but not great Alvarez and Samarn? Which of these fighters could exploit Lopez's rigid textbook style and lack of inside game while surviving the guaranteed Hell coming their way from a consummate ring general and dynamite two fisted puncher??!?

Well hard to pick IMO. Borkhorsor takes a few primes before struggling with the weight

 

[JamieC]

First and foremost, Harada would beat the living shit out of Canto.

Harada as the dark Horse in this super 10?

 

[Flea Man]

Lynch is almost certainly Hell personified for Lopez. Lynch has the chin to take a few shots before he gets his timing down and starts bombarding Lopez. Can't see Lopez standing up to him, Lynch was an animal as well as smart, and had very subtle reflexive head movement.

For the record, I'll take Benny over Jimmy. I omitted Wilde because it's all too easy to say 'Wilde sparks everyone' and he's also a built-in foil for the natural bantams of this group.

I'm actually more impressed with Wilde as a P4P force than as a Fly. Undoubtedly great Fly, but I can find Fly's with more traceable ring records and assess the quality of their reigns far better. Wilde of course faced YZK, Tancy Lee but for me it's Lynch fights that define him, as well as stepping up to the plate past his best against ATG Pete Herman and Pancho Villa.

Shit, I should've had Villa in here. Lynch Vs Villa is a dream matchup for me.

Anyone know if there's a book on Villa?

 

[DonBoxer]

I think any of the fighters listed have the potential to cause trouble for any of the other fighters.

Its funny most would pick Lynch as the man with the chin in comparison to Brown but Brown was never stopped and Lynch was once.

If the two were to fight my money would be firmly on Brown the size and reach is just huge here, 11" in reach would be too much for Lynch against such a quality fighter. I guess that i will take Brown to come out on top out of all of them. With Lynch I can see him having a much harder time with people than Brown does but still grinding out wins.

Didnt see Ricardo Lopez on your list. He would be about the same as Lynch as the next best behind Brown but i think Brown would take him too.

Ultimately i think Browns combo of size and ability sees him come out on top. I cant see anyone having a chance of stopping him.

 

[AlFrancis]

Imagine what Brown against Perez would look like.

 

[DonBoxer]

Imagine what Brown against Perez would look like.

 

[AlFrancis]

:yep

 

[Vic]

:lol:

Brown, the little Thomas Hearns....:yep

 

[Flea Man]

:lol:

Agree that Brown was nails Don. I'd expect some of the smaller guys to cause him trouble, he might find it hard to land consistently on Perez for instance, who utilised upper body movement and was very awkward.

 

[Teeto]

Miguel Canto
Masao Ohba
Pascual Perez
Hiroyuki Ebihara
Venice Borkorsor
Jung-Koo Chang
Ricardo Lopez
Panama Al Brown
Benny Lynch
Masahiko 'Fighting' Harada


dunno why I'm only seeing this now, fuck

Are we saying that it's at 112? Because I do think Al Brown would struggle with maintaining that, but if we're just saying in general then hmm, very interesting.

I'd like to see Brown vs Ohba go at it, Ohba would end up as the aggressor and get outboxed imo, you're not going to chase Al Brown around and out-jab him like that when he's on his game. Ebihara and Harada would be my shit, two technical heroes, Ebihara more putting the emphasis on being a technician in a pure sense whereas Harada would be looking to bring more heat, that would be an epic rivalry if Ebihara could manage a win. Would be difficult though, I mean, Harada is probably the pick of the bunch in all honesty.

Chang vs Harada is a fight for the ages, that I don't know if I could wish on them to do more than once. I think Al Brown would have a good shot at beating Harada though, defo if it was at 118, but at this lower weight I think the body shots in rapid succession would take their toll.

 

[Teeto]

Ricardo Lopez vs Ebihara would be some shit that would be studied for like a million years to come. I'll take Lopez as it is, reluctantly.

 

[Flea Man]

Miguel Canto
Masao Ohba
Pascual Perez
Hiroyuki Ebihara
Venice Borkorsor
Jung-Koo Chang
Ricardo Lopez
Panama Al Brown
Benny Lynch
Masahiko 'Fighting' Harada

dunno why I'm only seeing this now, fuck

Are we saying that it's at 112? Because I do think Al Brown would struggle with maintaining that, but if we're just saying in general then hmm, very interesting.

I'd like to see Brown vs Ohba go at it, Ohba would end up as the aggressor and get outboxed imo, you're not going to chase Al Brown around and out-jab him like that when he's on his game. Ebihara and Harada would be my shit, two technical heroes, Ebihara more putting the emphasis on being a technician in a pure sense whereas Harada would be looking to bring more heat, that would be an epic rivalry if Ebihara could manage a win. Would be difficult though, I mean, Harada is probably the pick of the bunch in all honesty.

Chang vs Harada is a fight for the ages, that I don't know if I could wish on them to do more than once. I think Al Brown would have a good shot at beating Harada though, defo if it was at 118, but at this lower weight I think the body shots in rapid succession would take their toll.

:yep Exactly :good

Are we assuming that prime Ebihara makes a good fight with Masahiko over 12/15? Because over 6 he was beaten. I'll roll with that. He was most probably not the finished article when he took on Masahiko (about 5 fights into their careers IIRC)

I think flyweight Harada would bite off a bit too much against Lynch. Benny would catch him in situations as Medel did IMO, and finish him. Getting in Benny Lynch's grill, and consistently as that, is a terrible idea. And as fluid a boxer as Harada could be, he never really showed that off too well at fly for me to think he'll use much of it here. He'd need the reality check he got against Medel (although he hardly changed, just utilised more, still an animal) and Lynch would relish it, and, for my mind, was the sharper hitter. Both very strong though the Jap' was naturally bigger.

Like Brown and Borkhorsor at some point in this hypothetical timeline Harada is going to be badly impeded by trying to make the weight. Ohba might well be able to hold his own in the exchanges (both had the classic Jap' kamikaze attack) whilst using his superior length and wonderful jab to take it down the stretch, where Harada did have problems with (although he got a very late second wind against Kingpetch second time round)

Would Canto become the best by process of elimination, eventually taking wins over guys that, on their best night, would give him a good go?

Which of these guys would expoit Canto's limitations the most, and which of these guys would really have no answer to Canto's game? I think, given how proven he was against punchers as well, that Canto's feet might well cause Lopez some problems.

 

[Teeto]

:yep Exactly :good

Are we assuming that prime Ebihara makes a good fight with Masahiko over 12/15? Because over 6 he was beaten. I'll roll with that. He was most probably not the finished article when he took on Masahiko (about 5 fights into their careers IIRC)

I think flyweight Harada would bite off a bit too much against Lynch. Benny would catch him in situations as Medel did IMO, and finish him.

I just boxrec'd it Flea, Harada had had 12 and Ebihara had 9 at the time of their fight, I always thought that Harada had had a good few and Ebihara hadn't had hardly any. But they were about the same, plus, I don't think it would be right for me to say that Harada's quick starting would burn out down the stretch, because it just wouldn't, and Harada never really showed difficulties with that style all that much. Sure, those technicians can give him a good fight, but which of these guys isn't gunna give you a good fight? So yeah, Harada all day for me tbh on that one that I realised they were very similar in experience when they clashed.

I didn't even see that you put Lynhc in there haha, I'm such a tard. I would pick Lynch over Harada, Lynch was a true phenom in his pomp at this weight imo, the way he fought on the balls of his toes constantly throwing loads of power shots and being so unpredictable. I think the dudes who will be looking to offset him with lateral movement would be more equipped to take him on more so than the guys who will be looking to mix it with him. Canto I would take to beat Lynch.

What a fucking boxer Miguel Canto was.

 

[Flea Man]

atsch I just edited. Seems I anticipated your brainwave :good

Just like the old days :yep