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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Like title suggests.
Is he the goat? Will you rank him higher than Holyfield?
Where would you put him in all time at HW and P4P?
 

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1.Is he the GOAT?

No, not even just HW wise.

2.Higher than Evander?

I am leaning towards yes, AJ +Fury is pretty damn good.

3. All time ranking?

I don't think he should go higher than 13, there are too many good HW that I feel have better resume's/accomplishments.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
How many great wins does Usyk currently have at heavyweight?
Currently, only AJ.
If he beats Fury, he wil have one of the best wins on anyone's resume, arguably.
I am not ranking Fury as highly as some on this forum, but considering size disparity, if he pools it off, it would be an atg win.
If he beats AJ twice after, it would be one of the strongest resumes of all time, I don't know how anyone can argue otherwise.
 

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Currently, only AJ.
If he beats Fury, he wil have one of the best wins on anyone's resume, arguably.
I am not ranking Fury as highly as some on this forum, but considering size disparity, if he pools it off, it would be an atg win.
If he beats AJ twice after, it would be one of the strongest resumes of all time, I don't know how anyone can argue otherwise.
I just think people are getting way ahead of themselves thinking of Usyk in any kind of all time heavyweight sense.

Usyk was a an all time great cruiserweight who has one great win at heavyweight. One.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I just think people are getting way ahead of themselves thinking of Usyk in any kind of all time heavyweight sense.

Usyk was a an all time great cruiserweight who has one great win at heavyweight. One.
This is a hypothetical question. I am not rating Usyk as ATG heavyweight yet.
But it will be hard to do so if he beats Fury.
If he beats Fury and Aj in a rematch, that man will have one of the best 3 wins on anyone's resume. Especially considering at how big of the disadvantage he is in size wise.
I think he is an ATG p4p already.
I will pose you this, how far can he go? Assuming he wins all of his bouts at heavyweight, where is his theoretical ceiling?
So let's say he beats... AJ twice, Fury, Whyte, Parker, Wilder and some other dudes, take your pick. Where would you put him?
 

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This is a hypothetical question. I am not rating Usyk as ATG heavyweight yet.
But it will be hard to do so if he beats Fury.
If he beats Fury and Aj in a rematch, that man will have one of the best 3 wins on anyone's resume. Especially considering at how big of the disadvantage he is in size wise.
I think he is an ATG p4p already.
I will pose you this, how far can he go? Assuming he wins all of his bouts at heavyweight, where is his theoretical ceiling?
So let's say he beats... AJ twice, Fury, Whyte, Parker, Wilder and some other dudes, take your pick. Where would you put him?
You are heading way too far down the hypothetical track for me. Better to see if Usyk can get a 2nd meaningful win at heavyweight before getting all carried away.
 

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Nah, he wont touch the sides as an ATG heavyweight. I'm a massive Usyk fan, but I would argue cleaning out HW and CW places him as one of the best of his generation. So, probably higher lbs for lbs than ATG HW. ATG cruiser though.
 

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Beat AJ in the Rematch and then beat Fury? Nailed on top 5 all time. Arguably higher.
 

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Beat AJ in the Rematch and then beat Fury? Nailed on top 5 all time. Arguably higher.
Not when this generation of heavies hasn't a patch on the 90s. There is nothing great about Fury, Joshua et all when stacked against the roster of the 70s and 90s imo.
 

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Like title suggests.
Is he the goat? Will you rank him higher than Holyfield?
Where would you put him in all time at HW and P4P?
All time at heavyweight. Are you serious or is this just a piss take?

If Usyk were to beat Fury it would make him a heavyweight with two significant wins.

How many heavyweights in history do you think have had two significant wins? Not to mention all those who had a lot more than two significant wins.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
All time at heavyweight. Are you serious or is this just a piss take?

If Usyk were to beat Fury it would make him a heavyweight with two significant wins.

How many heavyweights in history do you think have had two significant wins? Not to mention all those who had a lot more than two significant wins.
You'll treating this list as something sacred. Relax. If you won't rate hime top 10 that is fone, he still would have more great wins than sone on top 10 list.
I would say beating both top guys while being a blown up cruiser is better than 10 wins against the likes of Parker or Whyte. But that's just my opinion.
 

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You'll treating this list as something sacred. Relax. If you won't rate hime top 10 that is fone, he still would have more great wins than sone on top 10 list.
I would say beating both top guys while being a blown up cruiser is better than 10 wins against the likes of Parker or Whyte. But that's just my opinion.
I'm treating what list as sacred? The all time heavyweight list?

It's not a case of just me not rating Usyk as a top 10 all time heavyweight if he were to beat Fury. Two significant wins at heavyweight just doesn't put Usyk in it. Not even close and that isn't an opinion based conclusion. It is a data based conclusion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I'm treating what list as sacred? The all time heavyweight list?

It's not a case of just me not rating Usyk as a top 10 all time heavyweight if he were to beat Fury. Two significant wins at heavyweight just doesn't put Usyk in it. Not even close and that isn't an opinion based conclusion. It is a data based conclusion.
Can you explain the data to me?
 

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Can you explain the data to me?
Data thus far = I significant win at heavyweight

Data is he beats Fury = 2 significant wins at heavyweight

Conclusion
As many, many previous heavyweights have many more significant wins than 2 wins and as such, 2 are not enough to get Usyk anywhere close to the top 10 all time heavyweights.
 

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@ponysmallhorse

Here's a list of 20 top heavyweights in no particular order. They not necessarily the top 20 of all time but they are undeniably top heavyweights :

Mike Tyson
Vitali Klitschko
Wlad Klitschko
Lennox Lewis
Evander Holyfield
Riddick Bowe
Muhammad Ali
Joe Frazier
Larry Holmes
Rocky Marciano
George Foreman
Joe Louis
Gene Tunney
Jack Dempsey
Sonny Liston
Ken Norton
Joe Walcott
Floyd Patterson
Jerry Quarry
Jimmy Ellis

To be top 10 all time at heavyweight, Usyk would have to rate higher than at least 11 of the above. Which 11 of the above do you think Usyk would go ahead of by beating Joshua and Fury???

Can't wait to see your list.
 
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