if you were to rank on the eye test...

Luf, I've discussed this with you on the other site and you know how I feel about the great Benny Leonard. He looks like the ultimate ring general against Lew Tendler, utilizing tricks and techniques that are still employed today. The footwork, feinting, accuracy, punch placement, etc. Is all top notch.

Surely Harada deserves a shout considering he is, in my estimation, one of the very best offensive fighters on film?

I dunno if I'd rate Liston with those men despite his two KO1's over Floyd Patterson.

Y'know, Pacquiao beat the shit out of an all-time great in devastating fashion. Just throwing that name out there.

Jay said:

I'm surprised no one has picked Floyd - to me he looks fantastic on film, his fight against JMM was unbelievable technically for me. I'll have a think about the others

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His two best opponents are nowhere near as good as most of the others on this list, so, looking good against them isn't as impressive as, say, Whitaker looking brilliant against Chavez.

Thing about Monzon is at times watching him feels like butchering your eyes but he's undeniably a brilliant fighter on film. He oozed effectiveness, no matter who he fought, or what style. Rarely lost his composure.

I also think Monzon looks outstanding.

I personally believe that Chavez should be included.

luf said:

i'm tempted to take sumbu out of my top 25 :think

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Well, he looks absolutely spectacular against a genuine all-time great in McCallum. I'd say he passes the eye test and deserves to be in here.

luf said:

I don't disagree. At his best he looks to be amongst the best in history. However bang in his prime he did get one bombed and I'm not sure that should be admissable for a top 25 man.

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Yeah, getting annihilated in a round by Michael Nunn detracts from his overall standing, but against his best opponent, a highly-skilled operator and ATG in McCallum, he performed to an amazing standard, and, well.... Looked outstanding. Which is the whole point of this thread, is it not?

I can understand if you want to take him out in place of other guys, but not many pulled off a domination like Sumbu did over The Body Snatcher, or look so great doing it.