if you were to rank on the eye test...

I personally believe that Chavez should be included.

I think I do as well mate, Rosario, Haugen, Camacho, all top level performances.

luf, Wilfredo Gomez must be one of the most skilled technicians on film, a complete fighter.

Glad Marc Johnson got a shout out too, what a fighter

lufcrazy said:

Robinson
Whittaker
Jones
Armstrong
Duran
R Leonard
Napoles
B Leonard
Kalambay
Mayweather
Lopez
Jofre
Pep
Ali
Louis
Liston
Hagler
Monzon
Harada
Chang
M Johnson
Charles
Chavez
Locche
Hearns

I reckon that's my top 25.

Not ordered them yet.

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My mind's blank and I'm hungover, I'll probably feel like a tit for asking this but who is M Johnson?

Ah Marc Johnson

I thought you meant Marvin Johnson! I was gunna say where the hell is Mike Spinks then? :lol:

Teeto said:

My mind's blank and I'm hungover, I'll probably feel like a tit for asking this but who is M Johnson?

Click to expand...

Teeto said:

Glad Marc Johnson got a shout out too, what a fighter

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:lol:

Teeto said:

luf, Wilfredo Gomez must be one of the most skilled technicians on film, a complete fighter.

Glad Marc Johnson got a shout out too, what a fighter

Click to expand...

Gomez has to be in there. I'm taking Fenech out, and taking Bazooka over both he and Chavez.

Too Sharp should not feature on these kinda' lists. His incredible skills were usual displayed against woeful opposition.

Yeah Gomez should be in, not sure who to take out for him. Then again I might just make my top tier 26 large instead of 25 :lol:

Flea Man said:

Gomez has to be in there. I'm taking Fenech out, and taking Bazooka over both he and Chavez.

Too Sharp should not feature on these kinda' lists. His incredible skills were usual displayed against woeful opposition.

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He displayed great skills against opposition who were not woeful also though. I never said Johnson should feature on these types of lists by the way. So it a misnomer. I think he was a great fighter by the way and if someone were to put him or Yoko Gushiken in based on the eye test then I have no problem with it because all the eye test is is ultimately opinion and preference.

Words like woeful and crap are used far too much and out of context in the hardest game IMO.

lufcrazy said:

Robinson
Whittaker
Jones
Armstrong
Duran
R Leonard
Napoles
B Leonard
Kalambay
Mayweather
Lopez
Jofre
Pep
Ali
Louis
Liston
Hagler
Monzon
Harada
Chang
M Johnson
Charles
Chavez
Locche
Hearns

I reckon that's my top 25.

Not ordered them yet.

Click to expand...

Liston ? Aww, I don´t know.........

Gomez>Liston

Teeto said:

He displayed great skills against opposition who were not woeful also though. I never said Johnson should feature on these types of lists by the way. So it a misnomer. I think he was a great fighter by the way and if someone were to put him or Yoko Gushiken in based on the eye test then I have no problem with it because all the eye test is is ultimately opinion and preference.

Words like woeful and crap are used far too much and out of context in the hardest game IMO.

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Subjective, yes, but I would implore everyone to have higher standards and take the quality of opponent into account when judging a fighters abilities.

Gushiken also fought woeful opposition In comparison to the best looking stylists who proved their skillset against better oppo'

I don't known man, I don't adhere to this 'don't criticise boxers with derogatory terms it's a hard job' mentality either. So I will continue bracketing fighters as such if they are sub-par. Which a lot of Johnson's oppo' was.

Who is the best opponent Too Sharp looked brilliant against? BTW, I wasn't replying to you originally anyway but if he did prove it, who was the best he proved it against?

Flea Man said:

Subjective, yes, but I would implore everyone to have higher standards and take the quality of opponent into account when judging a fighters abilities.

Gushiken also fought woeful opposition In comparison to the best looking stylists who proved their skillset against better oppo'

I don't known man, I don't adhere to this 'don't criticise boxers with derogatory terms it's a hard job' mentality either. So I will continue bracketing fighters as such if they are sub-par. Which a lot of Johnson's oppo' was.

Who is the best opponent Too Sharp looked brilliant against? BTW, I wasn't replying to you originally anyway but if he did prove it, who was the best he proved it against?

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I thought he looked pretty brilliant against Fernando Montiel.

I'm not telling you to not criticise boxers because its a hard job.

You don't need to implore anyone to have higher standards, especially not me, I've already cleared up my stance on resume and footage, in this thread actually.

Gushiken not having a great résumé is exactly what I'm saying. My point is that regardless of that point I would not stand in somebody's way if they decide to put him high on their list based on the eye test because if their opinion is that he looked so good as to override the deficiency in greatness in regards to his level of opposition then I'm not going to act like I have a high ground to say he doesn't belong on that person's list. This is the eye test. As I said I've already cleared up my point on level of opposition and I clearly said it is important here.

@Teeto I wasn't really talking about you anyway, even tofu I'd replied to ya'.

And yeah, he looked good against Montiel but fell of towards the end which makes it a flawed showing, hence I wouldn't put it on that level, even though Too Sharp was past prime and higher in weight.

But that would've been my choice too. Essentially, against his best opponents he didn't look that good.

But yeah, basically the above was a aeries of rhetorical questions really, we're on the same wavelength here really.

Flea Man said:

@Teeto I wasn't really talking about you anyway, even tofu I'd replied to ya'.

And yeah, he looked good against Montiel but fell of towards the end which makes it a flawed showing, hence I wouldn't put it on that level, even though Too Sharp was past prime and higher in weight.

But that would've been my choice too. Essentially, against his best opponents he didn't look that good.

But yeah, basically the above was a aeries of rhetorical questions really, we're on the same wavelength here really.

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Ok sorry about that :good

I think that's a fine win tbf, true the performance wasn't as great in the latter stages but for me it doesn't diminish the showing overall considering I thought he looke pretty brilliant throughout the majority of it. Past prime too as you say.

Teeto said:

Ok sorry about that :good

I think that's a fine win tbf, true the performance wasn't as great in the latter stages but for me it doesn't diminish the showing overall considering I thought he looke pretty brilliant throughout the majority of it. Past prime too as you say.

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Summed up Montiel's deficiencies also. All things considered, there are many better wins against better fighters on film around this weight, which is why Too Sharp wouldn't get a look in for me. :good

Too sharp goes in the second tier for me.

lufcrazy said:

Too sharp goes in the second tier for me.

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Why? Why Too Sharp and not Ebihara? Or Canto? Chucho? Laciar?

Those are second tier guys, where there is actually footage of them beating better opposition and looking just as good (I won't say better as Johnson often looked sublime)

Where us Saldivar (who nearly made my top 10 also)?

How much of Marcel have you seen Luf? Reckon you'd be amazed by his skillset against differing stylists of the very highest calibre.