[McGrain]

I think it's pretty much an open and shut case this, to be honest.

http://www.boxing.com/dempseys_bloodhound.html

For Levinsky meanwhile, a rethink was in order. According to the Milwaukee Journal "...he will go into hiding for a while so far as being matched with Jack Dempsey is concerned." This is all understandable, simple and fair. Battling Levinsky had a Dempsey fight on his horizon, but now Greb has beaten him twice, this lucrative fight belongs to the victor, right? Wrong. We are now entering Dempsey-World.

Three months later, Jack became the first man to stop Levinsky with a hard right hand to the jaw, dropping the defensive genius in only three rounds. It was an impressive display and it represented the beginning of Dempsey's run in earnest to the title. Greb cooled those lightning fast boots, but remained hot upon Dempsey's heels.

 

[Lunny]

Really enjoyed that, cheers.

I know there's no way of telling now, especially with the lack of footage etc. but as a historian who would you have picked to win if they had fought around 1920-1922? Are the sparring stories reliable enough to go on?

 

[Flea Man]

@McGrain Of course it is. Fighting guys that Greb had beaten just prior to Dempsey beating 'em. Dempsey's obvious, I don't wanna' say intimidation but he was obviously as least wary of Greb's prowess after their sparring sessions.

Exactly why I don't hold Dempsey (and to a lesser extent Johnson) that highly as a champion.

 

[McGrain]

@Lunny (did i do that right?)

Allowing that it's purely opinion I'm going to pick Dempsey over 15. Dempsey didn't have extroardinary stamina, but he did have good stamina and he proved against Tunney that he could carry that power a little later into the fight whilst taking a shellacking. Greb wouldn't weigh more than 168lbs for the fight. Dempsey is, aside from perhaps Langford, the best pre-Louis HW finisher and an excellent composite puncher (#20 on my list). Additionally, Greb, though unquestionably in possession of an iron chin, could be hurt by the 190lb opposition he met. Miske hurt him, for example. I have to believe that adds up to a knockout over a longer distance.

But a look at Dempsey's title-fights and the distances they were fought over are interesting. He actually fought more title fights over a distance shorter than fifteen (Willard, Tunney x2, Carpantier, Miske). So all his title fights with ex-light heavyweights were over the shorter distance. Also interesting is that the closest the fight came to being made was over eight rounds, non-title. I pick Greb to beat any fighter under 200lbs pre-Louis over 8 rounds best-for-best including Dempsey. I'd also tend to favour him over 10, and i'd suggest 12 is the tipping point where Dempsey becomes a slender favourite again, best-for-best.

I think what the above write up shows more than anything is that he was a clear class above most of the men Dempsey met, hair better than Gibbons (2-2 in the series) when he peaked as a HW contender. I consider Gibbons Dempsey's best title opponent.

More than anything, I just feel it would have been the most incredible fight. You would have seen Greb swarming all over Dempsey basically beating him up but literally not safe for even one second between bells. That would have been an incredible sight, and one I would chose to see over Wills-Dempsey personally.

 

[Vano-irons]

Brilliant

 

[Vano-irons]

I hope you don't mind me sharing this on my twitter and Facebook mate

 

[Flea Man]

@McGrain Nah, Greb by UD even over 15.

 

[McGrain]

@Vano-irons nah batter away friend, link it anywhere you like.

What you and flea should both do though is let me have your twitter thing so i can add youse.

@McGrain Nah, Greb by UD even over 15.

Fair enough, but consider this - Greb never really beat a great HW puncher. Brennan never caught up to him, but Gibbons, Tunney and Miske at one time or another all caught up to him and gave him either a bit of a hiding or hurt hum badly with a punch.

Dempsey is a couple of long streets ahead of all these boys on pure offence. Greb was special in the extreme but 15 rounds with a guy like this is a pretty tall order. Still, I think he had a better than decent chance over 15 to get out of there alive which would equal a win most likely.

 

[Lunny]

@Lunny (did i do that right?)

Allowing that it's purely opinion I'm going to pick Dempsey over 15. Dempsey didn't have extroardinary stamina, but he did have good stamina and he proved against Tunney that he could carry that power a little later into the fight whilst taking a shellacking. Greb wouldn't weigh more than 168lbs for the fight. Dempsey is, aside from perhaps Langford, the best pre-Louis HW finisher and an excellent composite puncher (#20 on my list). Additionally, Greb, though unquestionably in possession of an iron chin, could be hurt by the 190lb opposition he met. Miske hurt him, for example. I have to believe that adds up to a knockout over a longer distance.

But a look at Dempsey's title-fights and the distances they were fought over are interesting. He actually fought more title fights over a distance shorter than fifteen (Willard, Tunney x2, Carpantier, Miske). So all his title fights with ex-light heavyweights were over the shorter distance. Also interesting is that the closest the fight came to being made was over eight rounds, non-title. I pick Greb to beat any fighter under 200lbs pre-Louis over 8 rounds best-for-best including Dempsey. I'd also tend to favour him over 10, and i'd suggest 12 is the tipping point where Dempsey becomes a slender favourite again, best-for-best.

I think what the above write up shows more than anything is that he was a clear class above most of the men Dempsey met, hair better than Gibbons (2-2 in the series) when he peaked as a HW contender. I consider Gibbons Dempsey's best title opponent.

More than anything, I just feel it would have been the most incredible fight. You would have seen Greb swarming all over Dempsey basically beating him up but literally not safe for even one second between bells. That would have been an incredible sight, and one I would chose to see over Wills-Dempsey personally.

Thanks, that's great, real interesting stuff.

 

[Vano-irons]

@McGrain

My twitter is @dvano1

 

[Yiddle]

I think it's pretty much an open and shut case this, to be honest.

http://www.boxing.com/dempseys_bloodhound.html

For Levinsky meanwhile, a rethink was in order. According to the Milwaukee Journal "...he will go into hiding for a while so far as being matched with Jack Dempsey is concerned." This is all understandable, simple and fair. Battling Levinsky had a Dempsey fight on his horizon, but now Greb has beaten him twice, this lucrative fight belongs to the victor, right? Wrong. We are now entering Dempsey-World.

Three months later, Jack became the first man to stop Levinsky with a hard right hand to the jaw, dropping the defensive genius in only three rounds. It was an impressive display and it represented the beginning of Dempsey's run in earnest to the title. Greb cooled those lightning fast boots, but remained hot upon Dempsey's heels.

really interesting stuff thanks

seems to suggest that Dempsey might of needed a modern scoring system ie 10-8 for a kd scored, to even have a chance of making it close on the cards presuming he could score three kd's over 15 rounds

 

[McGrain]

In my opinion, if Dempsey hurt Greb badly enough to legitimately drop him, there would be no more rounds after that. Dempsey seems to have let a hurt opponent off the hook just once, and that's arguably the most famous occurrence in boxing pre-Ali, the long-count. Greb would get got if he got badly hurt.

 

[O59]

Greb is amazing when you think about it. If he had beaten Dempsey I'd have no trouble with calling him the greatest pugilist to have ever lived.

 

[McGrain]

If Greb had beaten Dempsey, no GOAT argument would be possible IMO.

 

[Yiddle]

If Greb had beaten Dempsey, no GOAT argument would be possible IMO.

Very true . I just could not pick against Dempsey in this match-up my head says Dempsey will hurt him at some point

 

[GazOC]

If Greb had beaten Dempsey, no GOAT argument would be possible IMO.

Yeah, thats never occurred to me before.