Marcel Cerdan - How Great Was He?
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I agree, although Robinson's prime weight was welterweight. One thing I noticed about Ray is that even when he was removed from his prime, above his best weight, etc. He still looked tremendous. The guy was still kicking ass and taking names in the latter stages of his career.
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Exactly mate. Robinson was a welterweight, came back at 160 and still kicked arse (of and on!!) in one of the best eras of middleweight boxing. I think a lot of that generation of middleweights can sometimes just get remembered as being Sugar Ray opponents.
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You wouldn't call him great? I was always under the impression he was at that level. How good was he then?
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How good was Marcel Cerdan ? well I saw Marcel Cerdan fight his first bout in the USA against the tough Georgie abrams at MSG in 1946.
Cerdan won a tough decision from Georgie Abrams who 6 months later lost a disputed decision to Ray Robinson...
Cerdan was a relentless swarmer puncher very sturdy...He was a terrific WW in Europe during WW2, and lost the best years of his life ,just as others did then...
His loss to Jake LaMottra in 1949 due to a damaged shoulder when Jake wrestled Cerdan to the floor in the first round, didn't answer rhe question of who was better so they scheduled a rematch a few months later, but LaMotta postponed the date, due to "illness", and the bout was rescheduled a month later
and Cerdan was killed on Oct 27, 1949 when his plane crashed over the Azores ...A tragic end to a terrific MW who would be a handful for any MW that followed him...
Cerdan won a tough decision from Georgie Abrams who 6 months later lost a disputed decision to Ray Robinson...
Cerdan was a relentless swarmer puncher very sturdy...He was a terrific WW in Europe during WW2, and lost the best years of his life ,just as others did then...
His loss to Jake LaMottra in 1949 due to a damaged shoulder when Jake wrestled Cerdan to the floor in the first round, didn't answer rhe question of who was better so they scheduled a rematch a few months later, but LaMotta postponed the date, due to "illness", and the bout was rescheduled a month later
and Cerdan was killed on Oct 27, 1949 when his plane crashed over the Azores ...A tragic end to a terrific MW who would be a handful for any MW that followed him...
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He looks brilliant on some film of him, but his resume is not as great as the footage suggests. So take what you will from that. He also was not very big for a middleweight, he would defo be a 154 man these days imo. I think it's pretty evident that he was a fine fighter, resume or nor. I have no problem calling Khaosai Galaxy a great fighter and he doesn't have the resume to great resume to boast of either. Sometimes you just have to go with your gut instinct. Cerdan gets the thumbs up from me.
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I know Burt is a fan favourite around here but I just want to make clear that just because somebody saw a fighter live doesn't mean that his opinion is worth any more than the avid boxing fan who didn't. I know you're all going to jump all over me for speaking out against your hero but whatever. We should just make a 'Burt's bragging thread' so that he can tell us about all the great fighters he saw live instead of trying to imply that he saw them live therefore we should all praise his opinion more so than others.
Not gunna reply lads. Peace.
Not gunna reply lads. Peace.
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T, did I ever imply that my opinion is any more valid than others ??? would you rather have me not express the fact that I saw Cerdan fight in
1946 when he came to America ? You call me a "braggart" cause i relate fights and fighters I have seen ringside on this forum...hnmmm. I was under the impression that a boxing forum was for the exchange of ideas, and opinons of boxers of the past even though I am of an earlier generation
then you are...Guess i was wrong..
P.S. someday T you will be my age and I think you will change your tune...
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Very good, I was very surprised when I finally watched him as I got the impression he was a boxer from what I'd read but he seemed a strong, bullish offensive type against Turpin (Dick IIRC, not Randy) and Zale.
He didn't face that many good fighters until late in his career. And those weren't at their very best (Holman Williams for example) and there are plenty of middleweights that did more in that era.
He's certainly one of the more famous but based on what I've seen/read, overrated IMO, as he's always built up to be 'greater' than he is due to his story IMHO.
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Burt, I love you Sir! Even when I disagree with you, I respect your opinion (and I'm sure Teeto does) but for me, the post above is totally off the wall! Dunno' what provoked it and I disagree wholeheartedly, I would take it with a pinch of salt Sir.
I for one take the best of both Worlds; appreciate your first person input while knowing that it doesn't mean you're always correct :good
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Man, LMR's middleweight resume takes a steaming turd on that :deal
Decent is the right word IMO :good
good job I selected it then :good
haha god only knows!:lol: Nah, what's the worse that could've happened if you'd said great:good
it's alright isn't it, couple of decent names and a couple of losses. Once you look beyond the padding on his record you're left with decent.
I'm not convinced, for example, it's any better than Martinez's in fact all things considered I'd rank Martinez above Cerdan as a MW.
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T, did I ever imply that my opinion is any more valid than others ??? would you rather have me not express the fact that I saw Cerdan fight in
1946 when he came to America ? You call me a "braggart" cause i relate fights and fighters I have seen ringside on this forum...hnmmm. I was under the impression that a boxing forum was for the exchange of ideas, and opinons of boxers of the past even though I am of an earlier generation
then you are...Guess i was wrong..
P.S. someday T you will be my age and I think you will change your tune...
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