Murderers Row ratings
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
Joined
·
32,790 Posts
Bivins is my number one in terms of ranking them on greatness. For what it's worth I do think that Burley is the best of them, because he was actually naturally smaller than some of the others that he faced, and he still maintained a great record and compiled a resume.
Joined
·
2,153 Posts
He has those great wins in Moore and Mrashall but i just think Bivins didnt deliver in his big name fights.
Joined
·
32,790 Posts
not sure man
, Bivins had a great resume imo, Teddy Yarosz, Anton Christoforidis, Gus Lesnevics, Burley himself, Billy Soose, Tami Mauriello, Lloyd Marshall (who himself has one of the most outstanding win resumes ever, in terms of just wins, maybe the best), Melio Bettina
mulitple wins over some, and they were all the top fighters ina golden era
he also beat Ezzard Charles which, in terms of big fights, is better than any of either of Bivins' and Burley's wins.
Joined
·
2,153 Posts
For his big wins he usually has losses to match them, i think his tko over Moore is a very special win and i thought i would mention his Marshall win because its relevant to the murderers row question.
He has the losses Louis, JJ Walcott, Charles, Moore, Johnson, Baker, Maxim, Murray and i would have liked to see him come off better in those bigger fights.
I know the same could be said for Burley who came off worst with his fights against Williams and didnt manage Charles i just feel his overall consistency and body of work makes him the best of the bunch and Williams wins over him makes me rank him as one of the best because of his good body of work plus his wins over Burley.
Joined
·
32,790 Posts
Yeah I do think it's close but I just have Bivins edging it out with all the wins he has, and the win over Burley, plus the one over Charles, which is the best of the lot. It's close though, Burley would be my number two in terms of greatness personally, and as I say, I do think that Burley was the best of them in terms of ability, he was naturally at a size disadvantage to the likes of Bivins.
Joined
·
2,153 Posts
The more time i spend looking over and discussing murderers row the more i think Charles is possibly the greatest man to ever live.
Joined
·
32,790 Posts
Joined
·
2,153 Posts
Bivins is a funny one, he fits the bill but a lot of sources dont mention him. A lot of writing about just Bivins describes him as a member of murderers row though so i always include him.
dont know enough about these to really rank them:
I gotta rate Bivins top, his winning run between 42 and 46 (1 draw) was legendary and included wins over Joey Maxim, Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, Buddy walker, Anton Christofiordis, Lloyd Marshall, Tami Maurello, Lee Savold and then add wins over the likes of Bob Pastor, Billy Soose, Gus Lesnovich, Teddy Yarosz, Charley Burley a few others then Bivins for me is the top guy. I do tend to mix between them at times though as I read up on others.
I think Marshall is the most underrated of the lot of them imo.
I think Marshall is the most underrated of the lot of them imo.
Joined
·
32,790 Posts
It would be between Cocoa Kid and Jack Chase probably to go on top of that second list you threw in there I think. From what I've read, Cocoa Kid was an aggressive exciting fighters with class in how he went about it, was beatable by the best but also had wins over some of them.
Joined
·
6,403 Posts
Well, you know I whole heartedly agree with you on this topic, so it won't be a surprise when I say I agree with all of this
Joined
·
20,274 Posts
Booker was clearly incredible. I could well rate him no.2 or 3. He clearly came out on top of his series with Archie Moore IMO. Suffers from injuries, lack of opportunities (even less so than the rest) and early(ish) retirement. And lack of footage. One of the few we're waiting for. Elmer Ray ain't really part of it at all IMO. Obviously omitting Charles and Moore:
If we're not including Bivins, I'll go:
-Williams
-Burley
-Cocoa
-Marshall
-Lytell
-Young Joe Louis
But really, as most of them fared differently with different members, I wouldn't really argue. As of today, that's what I like. Obviously the guys with no footage are easier to push down a bit, just because.
I've still got loads of reading to do on these lot. But for sure, one of the great things that have ever happened in boxing, despite it being pretty sad in terms of the big picture.
Cocoa more than any is hard to get a grip on. The fixes were shrouded in doubt for a long time, and I'm not sure how much of it really was on his side either. Obviously he suffered the most, but he handled Holman in some of their fights, which impresses me immensely. Marshall was chinnier than the rest, but arguably the hardest puncher.
If we're not including Bivins, I'll go:
-Williams
-Burley
-Cocoa
-Marshall
-Lytell
-Young Joe Louis
But really, as most of them fared differently with different members, I wouldn't really argue. As of today, that's what I like. Obviously the guys with no footage are easier to push down a bit, just because.
I've still got loads of reading to do on these lot. But for sure, one of the great things that have ever happened in boxing, despite it being pretty sad in terms of the big picture.
Cocoa more than any is hard to get a grip on. The fixes were shrouded in doubt for a long time, and I'm not sure how much of it really was on his side either. Obviously he suffered the most, but he handled Holman in some of their fights, which impresses me immensely. Marshall was chinnier than the rest, but arguably the hardest puncher.
Joined
·
340 Posts
Eddie Booker was as good as any of them...look him up.
Yeah I knew I had a glaring omission, just couldn't get my head round who it was.
Joined
·
340 Posts
Hya chatty. I saw the guy on your avater Jimmy Bivins, fight the tough Melio Bettins at MSG in the mid 1940s.
Bivins would do very well today, yes indeed...
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
