[Burt Brooks]

I have posted this before, but it deserves another shot onTHIS forum...This truly occured to me...
In the early 1950s, an event happened that will puzzle me forever...I, and a buddy now deceased saw Ray Robinson decision a very good WW contender
Bobby ***** at an outdoor Arena in Coney Island, B'klyn, NY...I remember vividly recalling at the event that Ray Robinson fought Bobby ***** ONCE
before in Chicago on TV in Nov, 1950...And Robby won a decision over the lanky Florida boxer Bobby *****...I remember so clearly that
Ray Robinson was late arriving at the match, and about 1 hour later I watched from the top of the outdoor Arena Robinson arriving with his entourage
in a Fuscia colored Cadilac , hustling into the dressing room late..This I saw from the top of the stands peering down...
The fight was uneventful, but the mystery is this fight I SAW has never been recorded in any record book or box.Rec, and try as I could, no record exists
of this bought I watched in the early 1950s...I know from the record books that I have and from some boxing historians, that Ray Robinson did beat a
Billy Brown on Sept 4, 1950, TWO months BEFORE Robinson beat Bobby ***** in their first fight on tv ,Nov 8, 1950...
The fight I saw I recall was years after Robby beat Bobby ***** in 1950...So my mystery has never been solved...An immortal like Robinson
fought a bout in Coney Island Arena against a major boxing figure like Bobby ***** who once whipped Kid Gavilan, which I certainly SAW and
there is no record of this bout...Both Robinson and Bobby ***** are both dead and they would have solved my puzzle were I able to contact them..
A mystery to me indeed...My Bermuda Triangle...

 

[Chatty]

Is there no newspaper databases in that area you could read through. I know when I have went through old local rags looking for info on old boxers that they have through up plenty of fights that aren't on many of the old records. There are guys on Boxrec with only 10 fights listed and I have read more than 50 fight write-ups from the papers. I would assume thats your best bet at finding it.

 

[Burt Brooks]

C, a couple of years ago, several prominent boxing historians tried to solve this puzzle with no success...I have searched record books,
Web sites, and come up short...As sure as I am replying to you I SAW this event occur, and I am still perplexed...The Coney Island Arena was torn down in the late 1950s, Ray Robinson is dead and Bobby ***** is dead, and I am still bewildered....
P.S. my gut feeling and my inner thoughts now is that Bobby ***** might have SUBSTITUTED for anothe boxer in this bout and the next day news report did not
mention ***** name but the original opponent...BUT there is NO record of Robby fighting any fighter in BKLYN NY, other than Bobby Brown
in 1950, two months before the first Robinson? ***** fight 1950.....It is a mystery meant for Sherlock Holmes to solve, but alas, he too is dead..

 

[Jay]

 

[Jay]

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2006-06-01/news/0605311322_1_kid-gavilan-mr-*****-coral-gables

 

[Burt Brooks]

Jay, this film you post was the bout between Ray Robinson and Bobby ***** Nov 8,1950 from Chicago
which I saw on our small tv screen...Two months BEFORE Ray Robinson did fight in the Coney Island opoen Arena a Bobby Brown
who was a short WW from New England...THE fight i WATCHED WAS i AM SURE, their SECOND fight, a couple of years LATER at
the open air Coney Island Arena...Of that I am CERTAIN...as i posted before I saw Robinson coming out of his Fuscia Caddy LATE for this
meaningless bout...We in the crowd were restless waiting for Robby to arrive for the main event bout...
Very often at night I still rack my brain to find an answer as to why such an immortal as Robinson [whom I saw years before with my dad]
fought a bout with a major figure as Bobby ***** in Bklyn, NY, which is not in a record book ? But see it I did..If I could contact a relative of Bobby *****
who resided in Florida, they might solve this mystery.....Thanks...,

 

[Burt Brooks]

Jay, I looked up the website you post about the death of Bobby ***** from Florida...
Well even this article is WRONG stating that the deceased Bobby ***** was a SOUTHPAW...
As I saw him and as YOUR film clip shows ***** was an orthodox fighter, Not a southpaw.
The plot thickens...

 

[Chatty]

Was it a competitive fight Burt or could it have been an exhibition?

 

[Jay]

Just to clarify so I know when I next do a google - he fought him twice, the second time in Coney Island, NY?

And Bobby Brown is a different fighter who he did fight at same venue which is acknowledged and recorded?

Bobby ***** 1 - recorded/chicago
Bobby Brown - recorded, coney Island, ny
Bobby ***** 2 - not recorded, coney island, ny
@Burt Brooks - do I have it right? Sorry if I'm coming across as thick - but I'm terrible with boxing history in general :lol:

 

[Burt Brooks]

Just to clarify so I know when I next do a google - he fought him twice, the second time in Coney Island, NY?

And Bobby Brown is a different fighter who he did fight at same venue which is acknowledged and recorded?

Bobby ***** 1 - recorded/chicago
Bobby Brown - recorded, coney Island, ny
Bobby ***** 2 - not recorded, coney island, ny
@Burt Brooks - do I have it right? Sorry if I'm coming across as thick - but I'm terrible with boxing history in general :lol:

Jay Yes to the above recordered
Ray Robinson / Billy Brown Sept 4, 1950 Coney Island, NY
Ray Robinson / Bobby ***** Nov 8, 1950 Chicago on tv
Ray Robinson /. Bobby ***** #2 I saw at the Coney Island open air Arena a few years after NOT RECORDED, though I certainly saw that fight.
In reply to a question if the bout I saw was an exhibition ? The answer is No. I who saw with my dad robinson in his prime wuld not
pay dough to see an exhibition, so I discount that...The only possibility is that Robinson's opponent didn't show up a few days before and the
once popular Bobby ***** substituted in the fight I saw...BUT looking over Robby's record I see no bout of his in Brooklyn, Ny after his bout
with Billy Brown in 1950...So Jay I have little or no hope of solving this personal mystery as both Robinson and ***** are dead. Only a
living relative of Bobby ***** could possibly solve this dilemma..Thanks...

 

[Burt Brooks]

Chatty , good question but the bout WE saw was no exhibition..There were prelim fights prior to the main event which was non
eventful...

 

[Teeto]

the plot thickens, I hope you get to the bottom of this Burt

 

[Burt Brooks]

Thanks T...But I feel almost positively that I will NEVER solve this question...It is like you are in your house alone...Leave your wallet on the table in the kitchen.
Walk in the LR for a moment, and back to fetch your wallet ,and IT IS GONE...No one entered the house...This can drive a man to drink...
Well bottom's up T...

 

[Teeto]

Thanks T...But I feel almost positively that I will NEVER solve this question...It is like you are in your house alone...Leave your wallet on the table in the kitchen.
Walk in the LR for a moment, and back to fetch your wallet ,and IT IS GONE...No one entered the house...This can drive a man to drink...
Well bottom's up T...

:lol::lol:

have one on me my man:good

 

[JamieC]

C, a couple of years ago, several prominent boxing historians tried to solve this puzzle with no success...I have searched record books,
Web sites, and come up short...As sure as I am replying to you I SAW this event occur, and I am still perplexed...The Coney Island Arena was torn down in the late 1950s, Ray Robinson is dead and Bobby ***** is dead, and I am still bewildered....
P.S. my gut feeling and my inner thoughts now is that Bobby ***** might have SUBSTITUTED for anothe boxer in this bout and the next day news report did not
mention ***** name but the original opponent...BUT there is NO record of Robby fighting any fighter in BKLYN NY, other than Bobby Brown
in 1950, two months before the first Robinson? ***** fight 1950.....It is a mystery meant for Sherlock Holmes to solve, but alas, he too is dead..

Don't you recall where you first heard about the fight? Was it mentioned in any paper in the build up?

 

[Burt Brooks]

Jamie, as I posted above, I didn't HEAR about the Ray Robinson / Bobby ***** fight #2, I SAW the fight
In Coney Island, a few years after the first fight in Chicago in 1950, which you can see on film...No record survives of the bout I saw in
the open air stadium in the famous Coney Island resort a few blocks from the boardwalk, where the famous Nathan's hot dogs
are still being sold,70 years or so later...I know I will never solve this puzzle, cause only if Robinson and Bobby ***** were
ALIVE , could they shed light on this quandry, but of course they are both deceased...Thanks for your interest...
P.S. I recall in my mind ,when I saw this bout, that THEY fought before in Chicago...There are boxing puzzles that can ever be explained
and this is one of them...

 

[Chatty]

Have you asked at the venue, they might have some form of evidnece locked away in a back room with all the old events that have took place there. A long shot again but you never know

 

[Burt Brooks]

C, the Coney Island Arena where the fight between Robinson and ***** took place in the early 1950s has been long
closed...And the two or three thousand spectators that were at the bout are probably no longer alive...There is a tv program called "history's mystery's "
that could solve this puzzle but I wouldn't know how to go about it as I am a novice on my computer...Thanks for your interest...

 

[Meast]

I remember spending hours looking for info on this to no avail, it was a few years back when you posted it on ESB. Still no luck?

 

[Burt Brooks]

Meast, thanks for your efforts, but you have a better chance to solve the mystery of "who was Jack the ripper ".?
I,and other fine chaps, tried and failed as of now...But see that bout I did, with 2 or 3 thousand other boxing fans at Coney Island
in the early 1950s is a fact, and over 3 years or so since I posted this puzzle, I have not heard from anyone who was there...