Just looked at Graham's record on boxrec. He had about the amount of fights that Burt mentioned. You're probably right!
61 - 76 of 76 Posts
I dont care what you sold to Hatton's camp. Toot your own horn somewhere else Glenn, you dont impress me and neither does posting a single article which you refuse to name the source from about the Gilroy Woodcock fight that deviates wildly from accepted reports as proof that Gilroy was somehow robbed then refuse to answer what world class fighters Gilroy beat (none), what contenders he beat (none) when he was ranked (never) why there was a supposed conspiracy to keep him away from even a domestic title (none) or how it is that he was supposedly not given opportunities when he was given a chance to meet McAvoy and backed out of it and lost every other opportunity he got against guys like Woodcock, Mills, and Cerdan (nevermind all of the nobodies he lost to). BUT he was a great unsung fighter who could have gone all the way?
atsch So yeah, you can sell your collection to the Hatton camp but it has absolutely no bearing on anything, especially not your twisted view of Gilroy's modest accomplishments. Coming here and trying to drag me into a completely different discussion wont change that. So if you really want to do this fine:" Bert came to national attention in late 1937 and only modest international recognition on January 1, 1938, with his quick-fire KO destruction of top British light-heavyweight contender, world-class Scottish champion Tommy Henderson in the second round. "
So many things wrong with this sentence which is the beginning of your thesis that Gilroy was a feared and avoided fighter. First Henderson was not world class and was not a contender in any sense of the word. Never was and never would be. He was a regional champion who had lost almost as many as he had won when Gilroy beat him. Indeed he was coming off a loss to a guy who had lost more than he had won (but Im sure you will come back and pretend that guy was a world class as well and his record is incomplete). Gilroys win is even less impressive when you consider Henderson had already been stopped 8 times. Nor was this bout met with even modest recognition internationally. Unless by internationally you mean they heard about this Scottish bout in Liverpool.
"From that moment forward, and at the beginning of what would go on to be a 41-fight winning streak against top British contenders"
Since when are draws considered wins? A 41 fight winning streak sounds more impressive but its called a STREAK for a reason and draws break a winning streak.
"If you have ever listened to a great person speak about his life, a life that is repeatedly loaded with thrill and adventure, as though there was no end to the experiences that were possible to one human being, then you'll understand what it's like to admire, honor and idolize the prizefighter!
And not just any prizefighter, either, but a champion and a fighter that was too good for his own good as the saying goes, so good that is, he was blatantly denied his right and place as a leading historical sports figure."
Pffft. Poppycock. Delusional hero worship. Spells out your bias perfectly.
"history would witness Gilroy compete and win most his next 75 fights against names that got into the history books"
HA! Gilroy's record is a whose who of "who?" outside of the guys he lost to. When your best win is Ginger Saad, who has never made it into any history book Ive read and I have a library of them, it makes your statement ridiculous.
"Names like the aforementioned Jock McAvoy, Freddie Mills, heavyweights Bruce Woodcock and Don Cockell, middleweights Vince Hawkins and the legendary Frenchman Marcel Cerdan, more noted heavyweights in Ken Shaw, Johnny DeVilliers, and Stephan Olek, and complete avoidance from his own weight class by fighters like Ernie Roderick, Dick Turpin, and Dick's younger brother, up-and-coming future world middleweight champion Randolph Turpin."
Gilroy never fought McAvoy, he backed out of his lone shot against him.
Gilroy fought Mills and was knocked out
Gilroy fought Woodcock twice and was knocked out both times.
Gilroy fought Cockell and was beaten on points
Gilroy fought Vince Hawkins and was beaten on points
Gilroy fought Marcel Cerdan and was knocked out
Gilroy fought Ken Shaw twice and was outpointed both times
Gilroy fought Olek and was stopped
I wont even pretend that DeVilliers, the lone name on your list that Gilroy beat, was a noted HW. But Frankly neither was Olek or Ken Shaw (who like Gilroy lost to every halfway decent fighter he ever faced).
So Dick Turpin, Randy Turpin, and Ernie Roderick were protected from fighting Gilroy?? Ernie Roderick had more fights, more wins, less losses, less draws, and less stoppage losses than Gilroy over a longer period and against a higher level of competition than Gilroy did up to and including going the distance in a competetive fight with Henry Armstrong, nevermind that he was 15 pounds lighter than Gilroy who you already bitch about having to come in only 12 pounds heavier than Cerdan in the 170s. But Roderick ducked him??? GTFO. Randy Turpin didnt turn pro until 1946 and didnt win the British title until 1950. Randy won the MW championship of the world from one of the greatest fighters in history. Thats something Gilroy never came close to doing and not because he was denied opportunities. Turpin also knocked out Cockell and beat Hawkins. Two other things Gilroy couldnt do. When he beat Humez he beat a guy who was better than anyone Gilroy ever beat. And when he went 15 competetive rounds with Olson he trumped any of Gilroy's accomplishments again. But this guy, who fought one of the top fighters in history, was scared of Gilroy :rofl . You remember that guy, Vince Hawkins, who Gilroy lost twice to? Thats who Dick Turpin beat for the BBBC title. He actually beat him three times, once via stoppage. Turpin was by the far the worst of those three but by the time a fight between he and Gilroy would have made the most sense he went into service during the war and fought only once between late 1940 and 1946. By the time he came back Gilroy was fight at LHW. Yet of their two common opponents during this period, Hawkins and Cerdan, Turpin beat Hawkins, who Gilroy lost to, and was more competetive with Cerdan than Gilroy and didnt need a 12 pound weight advantage to do it either.
"Bert Gilroy was frozen out, denied and cheated of his rightful title fight at both middleweight and light-heavyweight for the coveted Lord Lonsdale Belt. The Champions, "Rochdale Thunderbolt," Jock McAvoy, himself denied a shot at the world middleweight title, yet allowed a hypocritical attempt at the world's light-heavyweight title held by all-time great John Henry Lewis. Freddie Mills, the next great bearer of the British light-heavyweight title, would possessively hold that title for eight long years, 1942 to 1950, without ever making a single defense of the title, yet go on to win the world title at the same weight. "
How was he frozen out? He backed out of his shot at McAvoy, who by the way, fought MW champion Marcel Thil in an over the weight match and got dropped and lost. He could have gotten a title fight had he won that and it would have been his quickest route to a title but he failed. He wasnt shut out. He got a LHW title shot because thats the weight he was fighting at. Why would he deserve a MW shot at Risko when he outweighed Risko by 7 pounds, not even coming close to the weight limit. Had he not outpointed McCoy at LHW he likely wouldnt have even gotten that shot (which he lost) and rightly so. But I digress, seeing as how I have already stated more than once that I feel McAvoy was a much better fighter than Gilroy. Your jab at Mills seems odd in the least considering Mills actually fought Gilroy in the time period you mention and stopped him in 8 rounds, Gilroy actually outweighing Mills but still coming in at the limit. You might have a case had Gilroy beaten Mills, he could then have made some claim to a challenge. But losing a non title fight by TKO much less is not going to make a strong case for you that the champion is ducking you.
I wont even go into all of the goofyness of Gilroy's quotes about himself that you post... Suffice to say ask any fighters opinion of himself and its going to be skewed his way, thats a fighters nature.
we'll not fall out brother
61 - 76 of 76 Posts
