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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, I did that before.....can be a modern fighter also, but since this is the Historic Boxing Forum, I think mostly we´ll name old fighters.....

Essentially name a fighter and rate him based on the following categories:


Jab-
Hook-
Cross-
Uppercut-
Defensive skills-
Offensive skills-
Footwork-
Counter-Punches-
Power-
Speed-
Ring Generalship-
Combinations-
Feints-
Accuracy-
Timing-
Killer Instinct-
Body Punches-
Upper Body movement-
Chin-
Heart-
Stamina-
In-Fighting-
Range Fighting-
Opposition level-


Scale (choose the scale you want...this is just an example) :
1- VERY poor
2- Poor
3- maybe poor
4- Below Average
5 –just average
6- above average
7- Good enough
8- very good
9- Excellent
10-THE best, GREAT !

:good:
 

· The Bobsledinator
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Hilario Zapata



Jab- 8 (it was fine but wasn't always there)
Hook-9
Cross- 7
Uppercut- 8
Defensive skills- 10
Offensive skills- 7
Footwork- 8 9might come as a shock that it's not 9 bt I always thought he was never really about footwork, or maybe it was just overshapowed y his upper body work)
Counter-Punches- 10
Power- 5
Speed-8
Ring Generalship-7 (wasn't what he was about one bit in my opinion, he was good enough in the sense that wherever he was, he owned, but he didn't really dictate things from centre ring etc)
Combinations- 9
Feints- 10
Accuracy-10
Timing-10
Killer Instinct-6 (nothing wrong with him here, he just never hit heard enough to get them in that situation consistenty)
Body Punches-10
Upper Body movement-10
Chin-6 (hard to say really, he was one of the most outstanding defensive wizards on film, he was stopped 4 times, he was outpointed 6 times, he went the distance with the GOAT of these realms once too)
Heart-8
Stamina-8
In-Fighting-10
Range Fighting-9
Opposition level-10

I did it in accordance to what your ratings meant, so yeah, I think that's fair, no?
 

· The Bobsledinator
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he was fantastic Vic, for purely aesthetic reasons, it was like watching a less complete version of Pernell Whittaker but with all the flash value being maintained. That's not to sell him short, he is one of the premier fighters of the smaller divisions hidtory, meaning from straweight to super flyweight.
 

· Sucka Free Baws
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2,553 Posts
Larry Holmes



Jab- 10 (One of the best in the history of the divsion)
Hook- 6 (Larry was never a great hooker, always remarked myself on the fact he lacked a left hook)
Cross- 9 (Marvellous straight right hand)
Uppercut- 8
Defensive skills- 7 (Showed some decent slipping ability from time to time, never really took too many shots)
Offensive skills- 7 (Good offensively but not much variety)
Footwork- 6 (Not one of Larry's strongest facets, could get sloppy)
Counter-Punches- 5
Power- 7 (Slightly underrated, but not the best the division has seen)
Speed- 8
Ring Generalship- 9
Combinations- 6 (Kind of sporadically put his shots together, normally just a 1-2)
Feints- 5
Accuracy- 8
Timing- 8
Killer Instinct- 9 (Larry had underrated killer instinct, when he got his man hurt, usually it didn't go the distance.)
Body Punches- 4 (Never really possesed a body attack)
Upper Body movement- 7
Chin- 9
Heart- 10 (Well he kept getting up against Tyson, that's good enough for me!)
Stamina- 8
In-Fighting- 5
Range Fighting- 9
Opposition level- 8 (One of the better Heavyweight resumes)

Never done one of these before so accuracy might be an issue :yep. Let me know what you guys would change.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Larry Holmes



Jab- 10 (One of the best in the history of the divsion)
Hook- 6 (Larry was never a great hooker, always remarked myself on the fact he lacked a left hook)
Cross- 9 (Marvellous straight right hand)
Uppercut- 8
Defensive skills- 7 (Showed some decent slipping ability from time to time, never really took too many shots)
Offensive skills- 7 (Good offensively but not much variety)
Footwork- 6 (Not one of Larry's strongest facets, could get sloppy)
Counter-Punches- 5
Power- 7 (Slightly underrated, but not the best the division has seen)
Speed- 8
Ring Generalship- 9
Combinations- 6 (Kind of sporadically put his shots together, normally just a 1-2)
Feints- 5
Accuracy- 8
Timing- 8
Killer Instinct- 9 (Larry had underrated killer instinct, when he got his man hurt, usually it didn't go the distance.)
Body Punches- 4 (Never really possesed a body attack)
Upper Body movement- 7
Chin- 9
Heart- 10 (Well he kept getting up against Tyson, that's good enough for me!)
Stamina- 8
In-Fighting- 5
Range Fighting- 9
Opposition level- 8 (One of the better Heavyweight resumes)

Never done one of these before so accuracy might be an issue :yep. Let me know what you guys would change.
Man, I agree with everything you said !
I would say opposition level 7 though......but 8 sounds very fair as well.....
 

· Sucka Free Baws
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Man, I agree with everything you said !
I would say opposition level 7 though......but 8 sounds very fair as well.....
I wouldn't argue with that at all. I'm one of those who rates Larry's opposition slightly higher than most others.
 

· The Bobsledinator
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great post scouseleader, I was waiting to get to the heart rating, and you nailed it, 10 indeed. I feel strongly about that one so I was glad to see you see eye to eye with me there. One of the biggest fighting hearts in heavyweight history in my opinion.
 

· Sucka Free Baws
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great post scouseleader, I was waiting to get to the heart rating, and you nailed it, 10 indeed. I feel strongly about that one so I was glad to see you see eye to eye with me there. One of the biggest fighting hearts in heavyweight history in my opinion.
Agreed mate. Every single time Holmes got hurt he just dug deep and kept going strong, even when he was exhausted late in fights he never ceased. Top heart.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Carlos Ortiz



Jab-10
Hook-10
Cross-9
Uppercut-7
Defensive skills-7
Offensive skills-9
Footwork-10
Counter-Punches-6
Power-7 (am I underrating Ortiz here ?)
Speed-8
Ring Generalship-8
Combinations-7 (almost a 8)
Feints-6 (not sure about this)
Accuracy-8
Timing-10
Killer Instinct-8
Body Punches-7
Upper Body movement-7
Chin-7
Heart-8
Stamina-9
In-Fighting-8
Range Fighting-10
Opposition level-8 (almost 9, impressive opposition level IMO)

tough one to do.....
 

· The Bobsledinator
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Carlos Ortiz



Jab-10
Hook-10
Cross-9
Uppercut-7
Defensive skills-7
Offensive skills-9
Footwork-10
Counter-Punches-6
Power-7 (am I underrating Ortiz here ?)
Speed-8
Ring Generalship-8
Combinations-7 (almost a 8)
Feints-6 (not sure about this)
Accuracy-8
Timing-10
Killer Instinct-8
Body Punches-7
Upper Body movement-7
Chin-7
Heart-8
Stamina-9
In-Fighting-8
Range Fighting-10
Opposition level-8 (almost 9, impressive opposition level IMO)

tough one to do.....
Vic, great entry, but I have to say, I've always thought of Ortiz as maybe the most complete lightweight of all time, in stylstic terms that is. He has a fantastic ring general, definitely deserves to be rated in the great category in that regard, which in the context of this thread would be a 10. I thought his feints were at least deserving of an 8. His body punching too, was quite prolific, against the likes of Len Mathews it seemed to be those investments that got him through those tough assignments. That was a golden era of lightweights too in my opinion, and he was the ebst of the era. As a fighter he was certainly more substance than flash, and was equipped to deal with any style, because he was so vaired himself. He could do it at range, where sometimes he's literally step in with a jab, then step back out, and he could do it in close, because of his great upper body strength. In fights like his bout with Joe Brown he showed he could literally spoil like a champ, and he just smothered his man, jabbing to get the point and moving off to offset him. He wasn't always the prettiest, but for me, all these different things, made for one of the most complete lightweights ever.

Just my opinion Vic, great post, I agree with most of it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
All good points teeto, really...

I couldn´t remember too well of his feints when I put the 6 there.....wasn´t sure when I did it.
I think I´m a bit too harsh with the grades.....
Probably I should have put a higher grade in his defensive skills as well....
 

· The Bobsledinator
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All good points teeto, really...

I couldn´t remember too well of his feints when I put the 6 there.....wasn´t sure when I did it.
I think I´m a bit too harsh with the grades.....
Probably I should have put a higher grade in his defensive skills as well....
No problem my man, I actually haven't watched him in some time, I may give his footage a good viewing tomorrow. It's been too long.
 

· CHB Defence League!
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Benny Leonard- The most perfect fighter of all time.


Jab- 9
Hook-9
Cross-8
Uppercut-9
Defensive skills-10
Offensive skills-10
Footwork-10
Counter-Punches-9
Power-9
Speed-10
Ring Generalship-10
Combinations-9
Feints- 10
Accuracy-10
Timing-10
Killer Instinct-9
Body Punches-7
Upper Body movement-7
Chin-10
Heart-10
Stamina-10
In-Fighting-9
Range Fighting-10
Opposition level-10
 

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Yeah, I'd say Zapata's chin was a 5 or a 6. He could be hurt, but only time I've seen him sparked was against the hardest ever light fly puncher and arguably the hardest ever super fly puncher. Both times he Rose from heavy knockdowns, so he was not flimsy, even though his length and awkwardness might've made him look that way sometimes.
 

· The Bobsledinator
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Yeah, I'd say Zapata's chin was a 5 or a 6. He could be hurt, but only time I've seen him sparked was against the hardest ever light fly puncher and arguably the hardest ever super fly puncher. Both times he Rose from heavy knockdowns, so he was not flimsy, even though his length and awkwardness might've made him look that way sometimes.
yeah good post. Jung Koo Chang one of the full on best fighters of all time.
 

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Frank Bruno:


Jab- 10
Hook- 10
Cross- 10
Uppercut- 10
Defensive skills- 10
Offensive skills- 10
Footwork- 10
Counter-Punches- 10
Power- 10
Speed- 10
Ring Generalship- 10
Combinations- 10
Feints- 10
Accuracy- 10
Timing- 10
Killer Instinct- 10
Body Punches- 10
Upper Body movement- 10
Chin- 10
Heart- 10
Stamina- n/a
In-Fighting- 10
Range Fighting- 10
Opposition level- 10

This proves beyond doubt that had Bruno been giving a boxing conditioning expert, he's have been the goat.
 

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Well, I did that before.....can be a modern fighter also, but since this is the Historic Boxing Forum, I think mostly we´ll name old fighters.....

Essentially name a fighter and rate him based on the following categories:

Jung-Koo Chang

Jab-7
Hook-8 particularly the left, could stun top notch fighters despite lack of raw dig
Cross-8 Worked it in well. Reminds me of Chavez's
Uppercut-6 Chang threw the kitchen sink at his man, not as used as straights and hooks though
Defensive skills-8 Chang blended offence and defence seamlessly in Duran-esque fashion
Offensive skills-10 Wow. Just wow.
Footwork-8 Whilst hittable (extremely game) Chang could get on his toes to confuse, evade or to plan his next assault
Counter-Punches-8 An extremely potent offensive counter puncher. Throw with him at your peril.
Power-6 Spiteful, but not particularly heavy handed, though sharp enough. Luckily, big output and intent
Speed-8 Not blindingly fast but threw his hands fast, and at his best, had very sharp reflexes and feet. Lost these badly with time
Ring Generalship-9 Chang could dictate the pace when on his best form, could pick his man apart, could swarm, could tame. Was a brilliant inside spoiler as well, could work well, and used this gear more frequently when he lost his legs (see: Chitalada II) Against all shapes and sizes

Combinations-10 Just watch him chase Tokashiki across the ring :lol: Could be wild in his attempt to batter someone
Feints-10 A solid part of Chang's game. When in a rhythm, he could wave his hands out to the side and still have of multitude of options.
Accuracy-9 When he swarmed he could get more ragged.
Timing-9 At his very best he knew when to punch, slip and counter all in one seamless motion.
Killer Instinct-10 Goes without saying,
Body Punches-7 Chang worked body shots well into his arsenal
Upper Body movement-9 Could be clipped, but then so could Sweet Pea. For his style Chang's upper body movement was this good IMO
Chin-8 Went in with a lot of top level punchers, and some freaks. Only badly hurt past his best, whilst admittedly looking shakier in Ohashi rematch and against Chiquita. Ahead against monster puncher Kittikasem in his last fight, and bombarded with hands that were just too heavy for him at that stage. At his very best, there are very few around fly with the style to get to Chang with shots where I'd be confident to pick his opponent by stoppage
Heart-9 Even when badly out of shape (second Torres fight) and devoid of reflexes (Chiquita) he willed himself through. Tried his best to get through closing stages against Kittikasem.
Stamina-8 At his very best he could get a strong second wind. Needed to slow the pace down with spoiling, but used it to work. Was a party animal, affected his game at times.
In-Fighting-10 Could exchange, slip, or use his craftiness to wrap his man up like an octopus and outwork them
Range Fighting-9 Again, could dictate with his in-and-out rhythm
Opposition level-10 Absolutely the cream of the crop at light fly, and arguably deserved to claim a second lineal title at fly. Chitalada x2, Alfonso Lopez, Ursua, Torres x3, Zapata x2, Ohashi x2, Chiquita Gonzalez, Tokashiki, Muangchai Kittikasem, this is off the top of my head, there's more. Turned pro' at 17, only started boxing at 16, beat Zapata by age 19 and always faced very good opposition.

Scale (choose the scale you want...this is just an example) :
1- VERY poor
2- Poor
3- maybe poor
4- Below Average
5 -just average
6- above average
7- Good enough
8- very good
9- Excellent
10-THE best, GREAT !

:good: Indeed :D
 
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