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Repeat or Revenge?

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He hasn't fought any big names! Until he has fought and beaten at least 2 of Usyk, Joshua, Parker, Joyce, Dubois, Whyte, Hrgovic or Ruiz he couldn't possibly be considered the No 2.
Probably best to look at were the boxers were ranked when he fought them.

For example when Deontay Wilder fought Bermane Stiverne the first time. Stiverne was ranked at number 4 in the Ring magazine rankings Wilder was at number 6 Tyson Fury was at 5.

Joshua did not even have a ranking in the top 10.

None of the fighters you mentioned were in top ten at that point in time. Some had not even turned pro till years later.

With the exception of a past prime Wladimir Klitchsko ...Anthony Joshua’s world ranked opponents that he fought and beat were no better then Wilders opponents.
 

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Probably best to look at were the boxers were ranked when he fought them.

For example when Deontay Wilder fought Bermane Stiverne the first time. Stiverne was ranked at number 4 in the Ring magazine rankings Wilder was at number 6 Tyson Fury was at 5.

Joshua did not even have a ranking in the top 10.

None of the fighters you mentioned were in top ten at that point in time. Some had not even turned pro till years later.

With the exception of a past prime Wladimir Klitchsko ...Anthony Joshua’s world ranked opponents that he fought and beat were no better then Wilders opponents.
WK was way more motivated and eager against AJ than Fury. Stiverne may have been ranked higher but he equally was old and had no notable wins except Arreola (whose most notable fight was a loss to Vitali).AJ also beat Parker in a Unification, Whyte has beaten numerous top 10 contenders since his loss to AJ despite his weak performance against Fury and even Ruiz as a late replacement was a former title challenger, the rest of Wilder's wins were a Who's Who of nobodies.

And Usyk's win list even excluding AJx2 is basically every World Class Cruiser for the last 5 years... Gassiev, Breidis, Huck, Hunter, Bellew.

On resume's there is no way ANY unbiased person puts Wilder above either AJ or Usyk.
 

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WK was way more motivated and eager against AJ than Fury. Stiverne may have been ranked higher but he equally was old and had no notable wins except Arreola (whose most notable fight was a loss to Vitali).AJ also beat Parker in a Unification, Whyte has beaten numerous top 10 contenders since his loss to AJ despite his weak performance against Fury and even Ruiz as a late replacement was a former title challenger, the rest of Wilder's wins were a Who's Who of nobodies.

And Usyk's win list even excluding AJx2 is basically every World Class Cruiser for the last 5 years... Gassiev, Breidis, Huck, Hunter, Bellew.

On resume's there is no way ANY unbiased person puts Wilder above either AJ or Usyk.
Unbiased people don't pretend Wlad Klitscko was 'unmotivated' when he lost to Fury. The reality is Fury comfortably beat a younger version of the guy AJ went life and death with.
 

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Discussion Starter · #284 ·
He hasn't fought any big names! Until he has fought and beaten at least 2 of Usyk, Joshua, Parker, Joyce, Dubois, Whyte, Hrgovic or Ruiz he couldn't possibly be considered the No 2.
I agree he's not number 2, you've got two undefeated world champions above him for sure. But is DDD better than Ortiz and is the Whyte we have today better than the Stiverne who Wilder ripped the title from?
 

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Discussion Starter · #285 ·
On resume's there is no way ANY unbiased person puts Wilder above either AJ or Usyk.
On resume he's above Usyk unless you start roping in his Cruiserweight record but at heavyweight only looking at resume's Wilder of course is above Usyk, he reigned as champion for 5 years and has 10 successful defences of the heavyweight title against Usyk's 1, how can Usyk be above him on resume's only?
 

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Robert Garcia Has spoken saying AJ is mentally weaker.

Spoken with the honesty of a man who probably already realizes he will be scapegoated for the second loss. Like McCracken was for the first one.
 

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Spoken with the honesty of a man who probably already realizes he will be scapegoated for the second loss. Like McCracken was for the first one.
Probably deserves to be scape goated. All this talk pre-fight of getting AJ to be more Aggressive apply more pressure. And let his hands go. And did’nt deliver. No urgency from him to get AJ to do all those things during the fight.
 
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On resume he's above Usyk unless you start roping in his Cruiserweight record but at heavyweight only looking at resume's Wilder of course is above Usyk, he reigned as champion for 5 years and has 10 successful defences of the heavyweight title against Usyk's 1, how can Usyk be above him on resume's only?
Well that just shows your Bias, even just taking his two wins over AJ Usyk's record is superior, Wilder has no wins against anyone even half as good as AJ and that's even accepting that AJ isn't what he looked like. Wilder reigned for 5 years by fighting tomato cans almost exclusively and even Ortiz and Stiverne were over the hill by the time he fought them and neither has any significant wins on their record. Beating AJ would still have been more impressive after the Whyte fight let alone, the list of Champions and top 10 guys AJ beat before Usyk.
 

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Robert Garcia Has spoken saying AJ is mentally weaker.

Probably deserves to be scape goated. All this talk pre-fight of getting AJ to be more Aggressive apply more pressure. And let his hands go. And did’nt deliver. No urgency from him to get AJ to do all those things during the fight.
Garcia shouldn't be scape goated, there is literally nothing he could have done, AJ is psychologically broken from Ruiz I and there is no coach who can fix that. He might have hoped he could fix AJ but he shouldn't be pilloried for failing to fix the impossible.
 

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Garcia shouldn't be scape goated, there is literally nothing he could have done, AJ is psychologically broken from Ruiz I and there is no coach who can fix that. He might have hoped he could fix AJ but he shouldn't be pilloried for failing to fix the impossible.
A shattered glass robot can't be repaired easily. Particularly when it has a glass ego as well.
 

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AJ's post fight tantrum led me to read about such things and I found this interesting :

A person with narcissistic personality disorder creates a grand image to compensate for his insecurities. He knows the truth about himself, but makes it his mission to keep anyone from knowing. He works behind a façade. He is a deceiver who presents an attractive exterior but, when the false front crumbles to reveal the frightened, damaged soul underneath, he overreacts with a sudden burst of anger, known as narcissistic rage.
 

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AJ's post fight tantrum led me to read about such things and I found this interesting :

A person with narcissistic personality disorder creates a grand image to compensate for his insecurities. He knows the truth about himself, but makes it his mission to keep anyone from knowing. He works behind a façade. He is a deceiver who presents an attractive exterior but, when the false front crumbles to reveal the frightened, damaged soul underneath, he overreacts with a sudden burst of anger, known as narcissistic rage.
That describes me when I was like 15 or something many decades ago. Lol
 
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AJ's post fight tantrum led me to read about such things and I found this interesting :

A person with narcissistic personality disorder creates a grand image to compensate for his insecurities. He knows the truth about himself, but makes it his mission to keep anyone from knowing. He works behind a façade. He is a deceiver who presents an attractive exterior but, when the false front crumbles to reveal the frightened, damaged soul underneath, he overreacts with a sudden burst of anger, known as narcissistic rage.
In fairness to AJ it must be mentally exhausting trying to act out a certain public image created by the P.R. Team. Great for getting sponsors. But not good if you are required to play a certain role.
 

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In fairness to AJ it must be mentally exhausting trying to act out a certain public image created by the P.R. Team. Great for getting sponsors. But not good if you are required to play a certain role.
I'm not saying doing all the Press isn't difficult but I don't really believe he is having to pretend to be someone who he isn't and how much of that does he really do? Probably a couple of sponsor days a month? For the millions it is worth it although I guess those will dry up pretty quick now. I don't see him do much media outside of Fight weeks and those will be lower key going forward anyway.
 

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I'm not saying doing all the Press isn't difficult but I don't really believe he is having to pretend to be someone who he isn't and how much of that does he really do? Probably a couple of sponsor days a month? For the millions it is worth it although I guess those will dry up pretty quick now. I don't see him do much media outside of Fight weeks and those will be lower key going forward anyway.

Seriously? come on dude. I am not talking about photo shoots.

Let me tell you how corporate sponsorship works. You have a contract with a major brand usually it is for three years.

It is very hard to get corporate sponsorship with major brands. When you have these sponsorships and endorsements. You are considered a representative of the brand. Any controversy as per the small print in those contracts you will be dumped by that brand.

The brands only sponsor those athletes that have a sterile corporate image. And when there is any hint of controversy you get dumped. Tiger woods, Lance Armstrong lost millions when their controversy were exposed. Manny Pacquaiao made a anti-homosexuals and got dumped by everyone.

AJ is the only boxer to be fully corporate. Only one who comes close is Wladimir Klitschko.

Floyd Mayweather had zero major brands willing to be associated with him.

AJ has over a dozen every one from Under Armour to Jaguar Land Rover.
According to Forbes AJ makes 8 figures per year from all his Brand endorsements alone.

That’s why his entire public image has been micro-managed. What you normally see in public is not the real AJ it is the corporate brand.
 

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Seriously? come on dude. I am not talking about photo shoots.

Let me tell you how corporate sponsorship works. You have a contract with a major brand usually it is for three years.

It is very hard to get corporate sponsorship with major brands. When you have these sponsorships and endorsements. You are considered a representative of the brand. Any controversy as per the small print in those contracts you will be dumped by that brand.

The brands only sponsor those athletes that have a sterile corporate image. And when there is any hint of controversy you get dumped. Tiger woods, Lance Armstrong lost millions when their controversy were exposed. Manny Pacquaiao made a anti-homosexuals and got dumped by everyone.

AJ is the only boxer to be fully corporate. Only one who comes close is Wladimir Klitschko.

Floyd Mayweather had zero major brands willing to be associated with him.

AJ has over a dozen every one from Under Armour to Jaguar Land Rover.
According to Forbes AJ makes 8 figures per year from all his Brand endorsements alone.

That’s why his entire public image has been micro-managed. What you normally see in public is not the real AJ it is the corporate brand.
Yeh but you are inferring that there is something about his life that has to be "managed" because otherwise it would be unpalatable to his sponsors and I haven't seen or heard that there is anything he is hiding or there is bad behaviour that he wants to do but cant. I don't get the impression he wants to say anything controversial? Armstrong got dropped for being the biggest cheat in the history of sport, Woods was cheating on his wife with sex workers, you might believe AJ is hiding a secret of that magnitude but I doubt it. Any pressure from this will ease as the contracts expire over the next 12-18 months anyway.
 

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Yeh but you are inferring that there is something about his life that has to be "managed" because otherwise it would be unpalatable to his sponsors and I haven't seen or heard that there is anything he is hiding or there is bad behaviour that he wants to do but cant. I don't get the impression he wants to say anything controversial? Armstrong got dropped for being the biggest cheat in the history of sport, Woods was cheating on his wife with sex workers, you might believe AJ is hiding a secret of that magnitude but I doubt it. Any pressure from this will ease as the contracts expire over the next 12-18 months anyway.
I did not imply anything, corporates want clean image. If AJ keeps on throwing F bombs speaking like the streets that alone will lead to his contracts not being renewed. That’s why his P.R. Has been working overtime in damage limitation.

So his P.R. have been working hard all these years to make sure he don’t do or say anything that will scare them corporates. And He has to behave in a certain way to attract new sponsors.

You seriously think the whole be humble image is the real AJ. That came straight from his P.R. and quoting all them plagiarised motivational quotes.

“Be humble , be positive is” how brand AJ was marketed as.

Now we are seeing he is neither humble nor positive.

A whole plethora of AJ’s fan base think “ Don’t let success get to your head and don’t let failure get to your heart. “ are words of wisdom conjured by AJ. Lol.

Those words stolen from Ziad. k Abdelnour an investment banker and author.
 

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Discussion Starter · #299 ·
Seriously? come on dude. I am not talking about photo shoots.

Let me tell you how corporate sponsorship works. You have a contract with a major brand usually it is for three years.

It is very hard to get corporate sponsorship with major brands. When you have these sponsorships and endorsements. You are considered a representative of the brand. Any controversy as per the small print in those contracts you will be dumped by that brand.
I imagine the lawyers at UA, HUGO BOSS etc are looking at the contracts right now to see if they can call time on the partnership, back to back losses and no rematch clause isn't what the sponsors were hoping for so any excuse to get out of the deal I'm sure would be welcomed although I wouldn't expect that "bad sportsmanship" would be any kind of violation of his existing deals.
 

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I did not imply anything, corporates want clean image. If AJ keeps on throwing F bombs speaking like the streets that alone will lead to his contracts not being renewed. That’s why his P.R. Has been working overtime in damage limitation.

So his P.R. have been working hard all these years to make sure he don’t do or say anything that will scare them corporates. And He has to behave in a certain way to attract new sponsors.

You seriously think the whole be humble image is the real AJ. That came straight from his P.R. and quoting all them plagiarised motivational quotes.

“Be humble , be positive is” how brand AJ was marketed as.

Now we are seeing he is neither humble nor positive.

A whole plethora of AJ’s fan base think “ Don’t let success get to your head and don’t let failure get to your heart. “ are words of wisdom conjured by AJ. Lol.

Those words stolen from Ziad. k Abdelnour an investment banker and author.
I'm not saying he hasn't had some Brand optimisation and that he hasn't said certain statements to sound good for sponsors but so would you if it earned you that money, I don't think it's fair to say
"Now we are seeing he is neither humble nor positive." what are you basing that on? His speech in the ring? While unconventional he used quite a bit of it to pay tribute to Usyk so I as clumsy as it may have been it wasn't arrogant in anyway and he has continued to talk positively even if his results in the ring have faltered.

I imagine the lawyers at UA, HUGO BOSS etc are looking at the contracts right now to see if they can call time on the partnership, back to back losses and no rematch clause isn't what the sponsors were hoping for so any excuse to get out of the deal I'm sure would be welcomed although I wouldn't expect that "bad sportsmanship" would be any kind of violation of his existing deals.
While I'm sure alot of brands will be considering their sponsorships that will be entirely on the performance side, no company wants a failure as their spokesman and unfortunately thats what AJ is now but I would expect performance clauses in these contracts, AJ hasn't shown "Bad Sportsmanship" at any point, as I said above he paid tribute to Usyk even if it was a ramble. I can't imagine Fury will be so generous if he loses to Usyk but what can you expect from the lying son of a violent criminal backed by Europe's leading organised criminals.
 
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