[McGrain]

OK, so I started this by accident and now it has grown beyond all control and is consuming my life. It actually started on Boxing Scene (??) but worked its way over to ESB where it's doing 20 pages plus. I'm after opinions and i'm very interested to hear them, but i'm also ignoring plenty - so please don't be offended if I don't take what you are saying on board. I'm sure it's sensible, it just doesn't hit my mark is all.

It's basically tier rated (although tier I has now morphed, as the whole list will). It started as a fifty and has padded out nicely. The bottom tier is a holding pen for fighters that have been suggested/seem relevant, but haven't been nailed down yet. Tier VII is still very much in question because it just sort of morphed out of a holding pen that was in that area. Here's what I got so far:

Tier I

1) San Langford
2) Harry Greb
3) Ray Robinson
4) Henry Armstrong
5) Bob Fitzsimmons
6) Ezzard Charles
7) Muhammad Ali
Benny Leonard

Tier II
Joe Gans, Mickey Walker, Archie Moore, Roberto Duran, Packey McFarland, Joe Louis, Willie Pep, Sugar Ray Leonard.

Tier III
George Dixon, Joe Walcott, Charley Burley, Holman Williams, Barney Ross, Tony Canzoneri, Jimmy McLarnin, Sandy Saddler.

Tier IV
Gene Tunney, Ruben Olivares, Pernell Whitaker, Roy Jones, Terry McGovern, Billy Conn, Kid Gavilan, Stanley Ketchel, Eder Jofre, Tommy Loughran.

Tier V
Julio Cesar Chavez, Alexis Arguello, Jimmy Wilde, Jose Napoles, Emile Griffith, Jack Britton, Carlos Monzon, Marvin Hagler, Jimmy Bivins. Ike Williams.

Tier VI
Salvador Sanchez, Manuel Ortiz, Evander Holyfield, Rocky Marciano, Fighting Harada, Michael Spinks, Wilfredo Gomez

Tier VII?
Ted Kid Lewis, Carlos Zarate, Jack Dempsey (np), Tommy Ryan, Carlos Ortiz, Luis Manuel Rodriguez, Bernard Hopkins, Dick Tiger, Thomas Hearns, Floyd Mayweather, Manny Pacquiao

What about these guys? (Holding)
Oscar De La Hoya, Sammy Mandell, Sammy Angott, Jack Berg.

 

[Guest]

WHAT!!!... Ike Williams only 2 tiers below Holman Williams? I think there should be at least 4 or 5 tiers between them

 

[McGrain]

WHAT!!!... Ike Williams only 2 tiers below Holman Williams? I think there should be at least 4 or 5 tiers between them

:eye

 

[Bryn]

Wilde in the fifth tier? NO JOE CALZAGHE!?

 

[McGrain]

...you're Welsh, aren't you Bryn?

 

[w;dkm ckeqfjq c]

:eye

This fucking violated me.

 

[JamieC]

Id bump Pacman up a tier and Wilde up one or two plus Hearns up 1 but almost all of the names are in the right place for me so I cant argue with it much tbh

might be controversial but could Tyson sneak in the ODLH bracket or is his peak too short?

 

[Bryn]

...you're Welsh, aren't you Bryn?

Yes, why do you ask?

 

[adamcanavan]

i had my p4p top 100 today and in history all done on my phone and now it's gone and broken, i dont have the heart to make them again so i'm happy to accept whatever you put; it seems acceptable.

 

[Guest]

Ok, on a serious note:

I can't see Ketchel above Hagler and Monzon... and Hearns 4 tiers below Walcott doesn't seem right!

 

[McGrain]

Id bump Pacman up a tier and Wilde up one or two plus Hearns up 1 but almost all of the names are in the right place for me so I cant argue with it much tbh

might be controversial but could Tyson sneak in the ODLH bracket or is his peak too short?

Ok, on a serious note:

I can't see Ketchel above Hagler and Monzon... and Hearns 4 tiers below Walcott doesn't seem right!

I'm happy with Ketchel above Hagler and Monzon. Hagler and Monzon have the consistancy but Ketchel cleared out far and away the tougher division. I have them on balance at MW with very little between them but Ketchel has the p4p credentials that nicks him ahead for me.

Hearns is due to move up a slot you guys, that's pending. Do you think that's enough though?

Yes, why do you ask?

Well, I don't rate Wilde. Nothing like as much as most people do. I think he gets consistently over-rated, he's one of those. Great - still great - but not top 20 material for me. But don't be sad because I love the Welsh!

http://www.boxing.com/the_great_forgotten_tommy_west_and_his_wars_with_the_barbados_demon.html

Great fighters, and as I wrote here, "As a Scotsman this is not an easy thing to say, but Wales has perhaps the proudest history in all of boxing. Currently, just over three-million people reside in Wales, rather fewer than reside in Iowa and millions fewer than reside in Scotland-forty-five million fewer than live in England. Nevertheless, the Welsh can dominate any list of the greatest fighters to hail from the United Kingdom."

 

[McGrain]

i had my p4p top 100 today and in history all done on my phone and now it's gone and broken, i dont have the heart to make them again so i'm happy to accept whatever you put; it seems acceptable.

That sucks.

Top 100 are always wrong. Always. So i'm asking around with this one and taking as much advice as i can to see what I can't stir up.

 

[Boxed Ears]

Terrible list, McGrain. You can't rate Holman Williams four or five tiers above Ike Williams. What's your reasoning for this?

 

[McGrain]

Boxed Ears you fucking me up. Get back to the land of shadow. Latest:

Tier I

1) San Langford

2) Harry Greb

3) Ray Robinson

4) Henry Armstrong

5) Bob Fitzsimmons

6) Ezzard Charles

7) Muhammad Ali

Benny Leonard

Tier II
Joe Gans, Mickey Walker, Archie Moore, Roberto Duran, Packey McFarland, Joe Louis, Willie Pep, Sugar Ray Leonard.

Tier III
George Dixon, Joe Walcott, Charley Burley, Holman Williams, Barney Ross, Tony Canzoneri, Jimmy McLarnin, Sandy Saddler.

Tier IV
Gene Tunney, Pernell Whitaker, Roy Jones, Terry McGovern, Billy Conn, Kid Gavilan, Stanley Ketchel, Eder Jofre, Tommy Loughran, Jimmy Wilde.

Tier V
Julio Cesar Chavez, Ruben Olivares, Alexis Arguello, Jimmy Wilde, Jose Napoles, Emile Griffith, Jack Britton, Carlos Monzon, Marvin Hagler, Jimmy Bivins. Ike Williams.

Tier VI
Salvador Sanchez, Manuel Ortiz, Evander Holyfield, Rocky Marciano, Fighting Harada, Michael Spinks, Wilfredo Gomez, Thomas Hearns, Carlos Ortiz.

Tier VII?
Ted Kid Lewis, Carlos Zarate, Jack Dempsey (np), Tommy Ryan, Luis Manuel Rodriguez, Bernard Hopkins, Dick Tiger, Floyd Mayweather, Manny Pacquiao

What about these guys? (Holding)Oscar De La Hoya, Sammy Mandell, Sammy Angott, Jack Berg,Tommy Gibbons, Mike Gibbons, Miguel Canto, Harold Johnson, Jimmy Driscoll.

 

[Boxed Ears]

Well, alright. I will ask you a question there about DJ YC3PO 101 XXX that I'm going to want answered pronto.

 

[Chatty]

I would have Duran, Leonard and Moore in Tier 1 - I think you could mae a good argument for them being higher than Ali but I'd also believe that he should be in the elite - maybes have ten tiers of ten.

Also BHop is too hight, his resume is pretty shot when you compare it to those in the same tier and even those in the holding tier. Yeah he has been great for longevity and he is the so called oldest champion (1/4 champion anyway) but I think he'd be near the backend - I think the three Mexicans esp Marquez have a better claim than Hopkins but he should find a place in the final ten.

Griffith, Flowers, Frazier, Nelson, McCallum, Gomez, Lopez, Lewis, Jack, Basilio all missing (sorry if I've just missed them).

 

[McGrain]

Gomez, Griffith, Lewis (Ted?) are all in there and Basilio has just been added to the holding pen.

The others you mention just aren't in the argument quite yet for me. I'm not entirely convinced Beau Jack, Tiger Flowers or Joe Frazier will make it at all. I'm happy to say that Mike Gibbons is above all these guys p4p and he isn't (officially) on the list yet. But we'll see...keep you posted!

 

[Chatty]

Lennox Lewis

 

[Bryn]

http://www.boxing.com/the_great_forgotten_tommy_west_and_his_wars_with_the_barbados_demon.html

Great fighters, and as I wrote here, "As a Scotsman this is not an easy thing to say, but Wales has perhaps the proudest history in all of boxing. Currently, just over three-million people reside in Wales, rather fewer than reside in Iowa and millions fewer than reside in Scotland-forty-five million fewer than live in England. Nevertheless, the Welsh can dominate any list of the greatest fighters to hail from the United Kingdom."

 

[Bryn]

On Wilde: I think if that's your opinion then I don't think I'll be able to say anything to change it, but now that I notice you've bumped up Wilde to the 4th tier then I'm a little happier. Even though we have a bit of a double Wilde situation going on, with him still being in the 5th.

It's not often that I've seen Wilde appear that low, but it's all good.

Great article on West, by the way.