[bask]

Robinson-Turpin III
What if?

It's 1952. June in London. The Chancellor of the Exchanger decides to waiver the recent 16% entertainment tax increase to 32% for promoter Jack Solomons to stage the third contest in the Sugar Ray Robinson, Randy Turpin rivalry.

(With more money on offer than a showdown with Joey Maxim, and still retaining a similar cut of the proceeds, Robinson signs the contract. Turpin in turn never enter negotiations to meet Don Cockell.)

Opinions on how it could of went? Pre-fight favourite? Possible outcome?

 

[bask]

Contests since last meeting:

Robinson:

1952-03-13 - Carl Bobo Olson - W, UD - 157½ - World Title
1952-04-16 - Rocky Graziano - W, KO - 157¼ - World Title

Turpin:

1952-02-12 - Alex Buxton - W, TKO - 163
1952-04-22 - Jacques Hairabedian - W, KO - 164

 

[GazOC]

Robinson to start favorite and win a decision for me. Turpin didn't seem to scale the heights of the first Robinson performance in any of his subsequent bouts after the rematch so its hard to be too bullish of his chances in a rubber match even with home advantage again.

 

[bask]

It's 1952. June in London. The Chancellor of the Exchanger decides to waiver the recent 16% entertainment tax increase to 32% for promoter Jack Solomons to stage the third contest in the Sugar Ray Robinson, Randy Turpin rivalry.

My mistake, the tax hike did not come into effect till August 31st 1952. So no need worry about that issue.

 

[bask]

Robinson to start favorite and win a decision for me. Turpin didn't seem to scale the heights of the first Robinson performance in any of his subsequent bouts after the rematch so its hard to be too bullish of his chances in a rubber match even with home advantage again.

I'm actually of the opinion that Turpin was simply marking time until the eventually rubber match with Robinson, and as such was fighting out of his class.

At this particular stage of both boxers careers', with Turpin back to a good level of conditioning, his athleticism and skills at the same level their were during Robinson I (minus the conditioning). Where as Robinson had lost a little of all of those attributes.

I could see the odds being split dead-even and from above, though this may be considered blasphemy by some, I would pick Turpin to emerge victorious in a third meeting at this moment in history.

 

[john garfield]

I'm actually of the opinion that Turpin was simply marking time until the eventually rubber match with Robinson, and as such was fighting out of his class.

At this particular stage of both boxers careers', with Turpin back to a good level of conditioning, his athleticism and skills at the same level their were during Robinson I (minus the conditioning). Where as Robinson had lost a little of all of those attributes.

I could see the odds being split dead-even and from above, though this may be considered blasphemy by some, I would pick Turpin to emerge victorious in a third meeting at this moment in history.

BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!!!bask. Utter that above 125th St. 'n you'd need track shoes

 

[bask]

BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!!!bask. Utter that above 125th St. 'n you'd need track shoes

I know... I had to cross myself and say three hail marys after typing those thoughts.

 

[Chatty]

I would pick Robinson but from the first two fights I think Turpin would always give him a lot of trouble. getting stopped in no 2 may make him a bit more reluctant to trade as much and that would play into Robinson's favour imo. I think it would be similar, a tough 8-10 rounds with Robinson taking the later rounds and causing a stoppage around 10-15

 

[bask]

I would pick Robinson but from the first two fights I think Turpin would always give him a lot of trouble. getting stopped in no 2 may make him a bit more reluctant to trade as much and that would play into Robinson's favour imo. I think it would be similar, a tough 8-10 rounds with Robinson taking the later rounds and causing a stoppage around 10-15

I see it going the same as you state, but instead of 8-10 rounds, I think Robinson would possibly try and load up in the later rounds sensing the close nature of the contest, yet miss as many, even more then he lands. At this point of his career, Robinson was merely human and whilst it would do wonders at the gate for him - inside the ring, a SD for Turpin.

I haven't really thought too much on where a Turpin victory would of led the Middleweight scene or Robinson's career at that point, but I don't think he would of went into his showbiz retirement.

 

[Michael]

Interesting fight, never even knew that it was scheduled a third time till now. Cant see Robinson losing this one though, ive got him by late stoppage or clear decision.

 

[O59]

Robinson is one of those special guys that even when he was past his prime, fighting above his prime weight class he was still a brilliant fighter.

 

[bask]

Interesting fight, never even knew that it was scheduled a third time till now. Cant see Robinson losing this one though, ive got him by late stoppage or clear decision.

Never got to a signature on a contract stage. A lengthy tease that never materialised.

 

[bask]

Robinson is one of those special guys that even when he was past his prime, fighting above his prime weight class he was still a brilliant fighter.

Could argue a case that Robinson fought above the Welterweight limit during the long "prime" stage of his career.

 

[Michael]

Just after viewing Turpin's big upset win over Robinson all those years ago, and what a great performance it was by Randy. Relatively unproven, he managed to completely dominated a legend in Robinson (albeit a man who was exhausted after a long, and hard routine of quick fights in Europe). He was physically a lot stronger in the clinches and showed good speed, work rate and power, in consistently outfighting Sugar Ray on the inside and on the outside. He even had the legendary middleweight hurt several times with left hooks during the fight. The only punch Ray found even moderately affected was his sneaky uppercut inside. Overall I couldn't find anymore than 3 rounds to give the champion.

Of course we know how well Robinson adapted after this loss, he gained emphatic revenge against Turpin as he did to so many of the foe's who earned a victory over him. And as ive said earlier, I would back Robinson to win a third time as well. But Turpin's win in London that night showed how talented a fighter he was, and how much more he could of achieved had he not been operating in such a stacked 160 division at the time.

 

[Boxfan]

Robinson is one of those special guys that even when he was past his prime, fighting above his prime weight class he was still a brilliant fighter.

And in his 40s,nowhere near the fighter he had been,still had enough to go in with up and coming young boxers,plus some contenders,and still go the distance. I think the win over him was Randy Turpins Buster Douglas moment. No disrespect to him,but Sugar was a lot better.

 

[Powerpuncher]

Good thread, Turpin was winning the rematch until Robinson turned it around but that KO was brutal and that fight took something out of Turpin. So Robinson wins for me by KO again or maybe Turpin is more conservative.

Could argue a case that Robinson fought above the Welterweight limit during the long "prime" stage of his career.

He definitely did, you could argue he was still prime at MW too, even that he was still prime until his first retirement.

 

[thistle1]

^^^ this is one of those stories that wrongly gets carried into generation after generation.

Turpin was NOT winning, in fact he was well beat and the commentary even states something to the effect... amount of punches Turpin has taken or he can't seem to land or something along those line, can't remember what he said exactly, but it was very clear Randolph was losing and this commentary was being stated a round or two BEFORE the KO.

check it out and listen, and of course see.

SRR was just better, and there is Absolutely NO SHAME in that.., SRR was better than damn near everyone!

 

[Bill Jincock]

Yeah, Turpin looks like he's being consistently worked over from the footage of the rematch.

 

[Klompton]

Good thread, Turpin was winning the rematch until Robinson turned it around but that KO was brutal and that fight took something out of Turpin. So Robinson wins for me by KO again or maybe Turpin is more conservative.

He definitely did, you could argue he was still prime at MW too, even that he was still prime until his first retirement.

Turpin was not winning the rematch. He was behind on two judges scorecards and even on another.

Id pick Robinson to win a rematch, either by pts or KO, doesnt really matter. Robinson didnt train for the first Turpin match and didnt take it seriously. It was the end of a long run of touring, partying, wining and dining, and what amounted to exhibitions in Robinsons mind. Had Robinson gone into the first fight (or mythical third fight) rested and well trained Turpin wouldnt be nearly as remembered today as he is. Thats harsh because Turpin was a pretty good fighter but its true. Even in the rematch it was only two months later and Robinson's cut left eye, suffered in the first bout, hadnt healed properly. So in a mythical third fight, after Robinson had more time to adjust to fighting at MW, with rest, a properly healed eye, and good training I think hed win handily in one fashion or another. Just on another level than Turpin.

 

[Powerpuncher]

Turpin was not winning the rematch. He was behind on two judges scorecards and even on another. .

^^^ this is one of those stories that wrongly gets carried into generation after generation.

Turpin was NOT winning, in fact he was well beat and the commentary even states something to the effect... amount of punches Turpin has taken or he can't seem to land or something along those line, can't remember what he said exactly, but it was very clear Randolph was losing and this commentary was being stated a round or two BEFORE the KO.

check it out and listen, and of course see.

SRR was just better, and there is Absolutely NO SHAME in that.., SRR was better than damn near everyone!

Turpin was getting the better of the early filmed footage, outlanding Robinson imo, making him miss and even though it's highlights the timing, control of range and defence of Turpin was dictating the fight until late on. Robinson just wasn't getting off early. Great turn around from SRR though.